lights during the day???

[trybysky]

I just got into an disscusion with a co-worker over the use of aircraft lights....

If an aircraft is certified after 1996 and has both a beacon and strobes, must they be operating at all times, even during the day? I know that they must be operational, but operating is another story.

Is there any reg. that states that any lights must be on during daylight hours??? It doesn't make sense to me. 91.209 says, that they should be in use unless the pic deems them unsafe, but that's for daylight too??? I guess I'm just lost on this one.

If they aren't operational, stick 'em with an inop, and fly away during the day, right? (as long as they aren't on the supp. type cert.)

Any feedback would be appreciated!

 

[Flymach2]

Hi...

§ 91.209(a) refers to operation from sunset to sunrise. As you mentioned, § 91.209(b) refers to the anti-collision light system which may be deferred if the PIC determines that in the interest of safety it would be detrimental to have them in operation. You probably know that not all aircraft are equipped with an aviation red beacon which would satisfy the requirements of § 91.205(b). As a result, the aviation white anti-collision system must be used during the day to comply with § 91.205 if the aircraft is not equipped with the avaition red anti-collision system.

Regards

 

[trybysky]

ok, so...

some sort of anti-collision light must be used during the day though?...Is that what you're saying? AND is this just for aircraft with cert. dates after 1996, or any aircraft with them installed?

If I'm flying around a '51 tri-pacer with strobes installed, do I need to have them on during the day?

If' I'm flying a '95 cessna in the same situation, do I need to have them on??

It just doesn't make much sense to me, and as much as I read the regs, a straight anwser is hard to come by!!

Thanks again...

 

[Toy Soldier]

My question to the FAA...

I have a part 91 question.

1. When is a beacon light (the rotating light on the tail) required on a part 91 operating aircraft? Several of us have differing interpretations and we were wondering what your intent/interpretation is.

=================================

The FAA answer to me...

The beacon you are referring to (rotating or flashing) is properly called an anticollision light. With that in mind, the rule is clear:

91.209 Aircraft Lights.
No person may:
...
(b) Operate an aircraft that is equipped with an anticollision light
system, unless it has lighted anticollision lights...

Ray

Ray Stinchcomb
Acting Manager, AFS-820


====================================

He did not differentiate between aircraft years or types. I hope this helps...

 

[Flymach2]

Originally posted by trybysky

If I'm flying around a '51 tri-pacer with strobes installed, do I need to have them on during the day? If' I'm flying a '95 cessna in the same situation, do I need to have them on??

Yes. If the "strobes" you are talking about are the only anti-collision system installed on the aircraft.

FAR § 91.205 provides additional minimum equipment requirements for certain types of operations. These additional requirements must be met for a specified type of operation even if an aircraft was not required to possess this equipment under its original type certificate. As an example, FAR § 91.205 and Part 23 would require anti-collision lights for day VFR flight even if a particular aircraft was originally certificated for flight without anti-collision lights. These additional pieces of equipment must have their installation approved by the FAA and these pieces of equipment would become part of the certificated type design for that aircraft which would be subsequent to an STC. In addition, Part 23 refers to Airworthiness Standards for Normal, Utility and Aerobatic category aircraft. In order for that particular aircraft to satisfy the requirements for Airworthiness, it must comply with § 23.1401 which refers to the anti-collision light system.

Regards

 

[KickSave]

In addition, Part 23 refers to Airworthiness Standards for Normal, Utility and Aerobatic category aircraft. In order for that particular aircraft to satisfy the requirements for Airworthiness, it must comply with § 23.1401 which refers to the anti-collision light system.

Regards

By that, do you mean that it must have the A/C lights in order to get a new type certificate, not just to be airworthy? 21.17 states that an applicant for a type certificate must show that the aircraft meets the applicable requirements that are effective on the date of the application, unless other sections later require compliance, such as 23.2, seat belts, which are retro active. That doesn't mean that older planes must install A/C lights to remain airworthy though. Is that correct?

 

[dasmith]

Besides the interesting intellectual exercise of nailing down the finer points of the FARs, my question is why wouldn't you use as much illumination as possible, day or night?

Why wouldn't you want to be lit up as much as possible? Aren't mid-air collisions scary enough to cause you to want to have every light (perhaps except nav during day) on during all phases of flight?

Of course there might be a few exceptions, strobe use in clouds at night, etc etc.

 

[Rick1128]

ground ops

Way too many pilots do not understand their responsibility to use strobes responsibly. They taxi on crowded ramps and in front of other operating aircraft wioth strobes on. It is bad enough in the day, but at night it is down right dangerous. They are blinding other pilots. They need to keep in mind that they would not like the other pilot to do it to them either. Leaving strobes off in those conditions is considered by the FAA as good operating practice.

I have discussed this with several pilots who I have discussed the use of their strobes on the ground. Most did not have a complete handle on the intend of the reg. A couple didn't even know that their particular aircraft (piper) had a split switch for strobes and beacon. Most of this I have to place back with their instructors.

 

[KickSave]

Rick that's a good point about being courteous and responsible whne using strobes in the vicinity of other aircraft on the ground. Unfortunately, I've flown in my limted time at least one normal category AC that didn't have a rotating beacon, only strobes. I'm sure other pilots would have been looking at me with an evil eye, but it was either strobes, or darkness. Day or night, those strobes had to be operating. At night the Nav lights also came on.

 

[T-Gates]

Good Lord!

Just turn the dam things on!

They're there to be used!

But for the love of god, do not taxi with them on.....