Liberals rejoice! Re-regulation of the airline industry in Hawaii possible

[Poahi]

Here's the article:
http://www.khon2.com/news/local/18715084.html

Here's the legislation:

http://capitol.hawaii.gov/session2008/bills/HB2250_HD1_.htm


The recognized fare level:

"... (e) In the exercise of its power to prescribe just and reasonable rates, fares, and charges for the transportation of passengers or property by Hawaii air carriers and to prescribe classifications, rules, and practices relating thereto, the commission shall give consideration, among other factors, to the following:
(1) The effect of the rates upon the movement of traffic by the Hawaii air carrier or carriers for which the rates are prescribed;

(2) The need, in the public interest, of adequate and efficient transportation service by the carriers at the lowest cost consistent with the furnishing of the service; and

(3) The need for revenues sufficient to enable the carriers, under honest, economical, and efficient management, including the operation of service at reasonable load factors, to provide the service.

(f) The commission shall establish and thereafter periodically adjust the recognized level of the fare, rate, or charge. The commission may adjust the recognized level by increasing or decreasing it, as appropriate, by the percentage change in the aggregate cost per available seat mile of similarly situated carriers for fares and per available ton mile for general commodity rates.
(g) The commission shall have no authority to find that any fare, rate, or other charge for service established by any Hawaii air carrier is unjust, unreasonable, or unjustified or to suspend the fare, rate, or other charge on the basis that the fare, rate or charge is too low or too high if the fare, rate, or charge is not more than five per cent higher or ten per cent lower than the recognized level of the fare, rate, or charge. Separate recognized levels shall be established and thereafter periodically adjusted on a peak and off-peak basis for first class fares, normal economy fares, tour basing fares, group fares, kamaaina fares, and for general commodity rates. The commission shall have no authority to find that a contract freight rate is unjust or unreasonable."

 

[sqwkvfr]

Didn't these idiots already try this sort of crap with price controls on gasoline?

 

[fugghedabowdit]

Didn't a liberal de-regulate the airlines?

 

[Soverytired]

The government might be able to force companies to charge a certain fee for a product, but they can't force them to be profitable at that "consumer friendly" rate.

And they might be able to force companies to charge enough to make a profit, but they can't force people to buy it either.

There's a far more efficient mechanism for this . . . it's called the free market.

 

[Abernathy]

There's a far more efficient mechanism for this . . . it's called the free market.

100% free market would be a nightmare. Say goodbye to Unions, in the process.

 

[Soverytired]

100% free market would be a nightmare. Say goodbye to Unions, in the process.

100% government mandated price controls would mean poverty on a scale never seen in the US.

A free market has no relevance on the formation of unions. Especially for skilled labor unions.

 

[Raskal]

There's a far more efficient mechanism for this . . . it's called the free market.

Hasn't this been proven over and over and over again to not be possible? There is no such thing as a free market...it's complete delusion.

What is the goal of a free market? Isn't it to become the monopoly so you can charge what you want? Um, GO...remember that?

A real, tangible free market is a pipe dream. We are closer to it than ever before, look at gas. Supply down? No. Production down? No. Price up? Yes. It is driven up by your beloved 'free market' in the name of speculation from commodities traders...and no other reason.

You keep hanging on to that high school lesson on lassez-faire econ. and you will continue taking it up the rear from every company that can control a market.

 

[Abernathy]

A free market has no relevance on the formation of unions. Especially for skilled labor unions.

What are you, kidding?

 

[Poahi]

Didn't a liberal de-regulate the airlines?

Most of the work was done for him. I really don't think he had much of a choice.

 

[dmspilot00]

Hasn't this been proven over and over and over again to not be possible? There is no such thing as a free market...it's complete delusion.

What is the goal of a free market? Isn't it to become the monopoly so you can charge what you want? Um, GO...remember that?

A real, tangible free market is a pipe dream. We are closer to it than ever before, look at gas. Supply down? No. Production down? No. Price up? Yes. It is driven up by your beloved 'free market' in the name of speculation from commodities traders...and no other reason.

You keep hanging on to that high school lesson on lassez-faire econ. and you will continue taking it up the rear from every company that can control a market.

What a bunch of BS. We get further and further away from a free market every day. If you think gas is a free market, I suppose you have never heard of OPEC, then. Or the military action that this country has undertaken to secure oil supplies (aka subsidies). You also forgot the "demand" part of the "supply and demand" model.

Where do you get this that it's been "proven" that a free market is "impossible" and delusion. All you have to do is get rid of the ridicuolous government laws that interfere and voila, a free market. It's not that hard. We had lots of free markets in the 19th and early 20th century and, naturally, America thrived.

The goal of the free market is to maximize utility. Where do you get this monopoly crap? Monopolies are CAUSED by government intervention, because the government creates barriers to entry preventing new companies from forming. Did you even read the posted article? Because that's exactly what Hawaii wants to do, they want to create barriers to entry and prevent new companies from forming!

And who taught you that a monopoly can charge whatever it wants? That's a total fallacy. It sounds like you are the one who's only education in economics is a high school lesson.

Hawaii is considering regulation why, because a new company came in and charged lower prices? Isn't that what the consumers want? If the consumers didn't want it then why did they buy their product? This is insane.

 

[gator_hater]

A real, tangible free market is a pipe dream. We are closer to it than ever before, look at gas. Supply down? No. Production down? No. Price up? Yes. It is driven up by your beloved 'free market' in the name of speculation from commodities traders...and no other reason.

You forgot the demand issue. There are two countries which account for 1/3 of the world population who are willing to pay more for oil than they ever have in the past.

Our current problems have roots in us not pursuing energy independence decades ago because it was not cost efficient. We are paying for that now.

I know many of you do not agree simply because it can't be Bush's fault if it began under Carter.

 

[gator_hater]

Look at the free market for computers. A laptop cost me $2200 when I was a freshman in college, now that same item costs $1100. The free market is terrible for consumers.

 

[Poahi]

Under this law, if you wanted to start an interisland airline, you would have to convince a panel of the 'need' for the service. If you set the airfares at say $69.00, the load factors would show another carrier is not necessary. If that were true, Aloha Airlines couldn't re-start even if they had the backing. This legislation if passed, is a gift to Hawaiian and go!.

And here's another thing. What if Island Air brings in Q400's and lobbies for a 'recognized fare' lower than Hawaiian's cost? Hawaiian will say they have to charge higher to stay in business and there you go, the death of competition.

What airline would want to enter the market now? A year from now, we are going to hear a bill on repealing the airline regulation like we did on the gas cap. We have a really short memory.

 

[Soverytired]

What are you, kidding?

No. Are you?

Labor is a commodity. Union membership provides advantages both labor and business. It provides disadvantages to both as well.

In a truly hobbesian, dog-eat-dog free market environment where business could do whatever it wanted to its workforce, I suspect union membership and power would increase, not decline.

Surely you understand this?

 

[Soverytired]

What a bunch of BS. We get further and further away from a free market every day. If you think gas is a free market, I suppose you have never heard of OPEC, then. Or the military action that this country has undertaken to secure oil supplies (aka subsidies). You also forgot the "demand" part of the "supply and demand" model.

Where do you get this that it's been "proven" that a free market is "impossible" and delusion. All you have to do is get rid of the ridicuolous government laws that interfere and voila, a free market. It's not that hard. We had lots of free markets in the 19th and early 20th century and, naturally, America thrived.

The goal of the free market is to maximize utility. Where do you get this monopoly crap? Monopolies are CAUSED by government intervention, because the government creates barriers to entry preventing new companies from forming. Did you even read the posted article? Because that's exactly what Hawaii wants to do, they want to create barriers to entry and prevent new companies from forming!

And who taught you that a monopoly can charge whatever it wants? That's a total fallacy. It sounds like you are the one who's only education in economics is a high school lesson.

Hawaii is considering regulation why, because a new company came in and charged lower prices? Isn't that what the consumers want? If the consumers didn't want it then why did they buy their product? This is insane.

Excellent summation and good post. I didn't want to tackle it, because I don't have the gift of distilling complex ideas into pithy posts.

Economics isn't called "the dismal science" for nothing. Yet when I read things like the post you're responding to, I can't help but think of how truly ignorant most people are about basic concepts of free markets, monopolies, and government regulation.

Required reading for anyone with an I.Q. over 90:

Basic Economics by Thomas Sowell

 

[DoinTime]

Most of the work was done for him. I really don't think he had much of a choice.

Most of the work was done by a liberal senator.

 

[milky]

Required reading for anyone with an I.Q. over 90:

Basic Economics by Thomas Sowell

Then read the sequel, "Applied Economics"

Should be required reading for all Americans. The liberal schools wouldn't let it happens since it would cause the graduates to get rid of the schools.

 

[Carl_Spackler]

Required reading for anyone with an I.Q. over 90:

Basic Economics by Thomas Sowell

Great Book. I summarize the first part of the book as it applies to this issue. Price controls almost always have the opposite effect of what they were intended to fix.

 

[Tarzan]

Here's the rub on regulation. Per the Constitution, one of the duties delegated to the federal government is ito regulate nterstate commerce. (Section 8 Article 1).

However, at the time the Constitution was written, regulate meant to make uniform or regular. The little clause has been used for years to circumvent the basic idea of the Constitution. Does airline regulation fall under this?

One serious question for those guys who favor this sort of stuff.... Name something the government has imposed upon the people which worked out well. You may be able to pony up something but I can't come up with anything. But I can name off many things that have gone to sh1t when the federal fingers reached in to fix things. Can you say TSA?

Drunk post number f1 or the night.

 

[Dan Roman]

This legislation if passed, is a gift to Hawaiian and go!.


Intersting that Hawaiian testified AGAINST the bill.