Let's talk Part 61 verses Part 141 Training Programs

[xshuttlefa]

My $0.02.



Usually, this will mean some older guy in a flying club who's been a professional aviator and has a good job outside of instructing who isn't chomping at the bit to get to the next aeronatical stepping stone on his way to Fed Ex., AA or wherever.

He may be demanding, opinionated and not as fun to be around as someone nearer your own age but you'll always know where you stand with him, and he'll teach you a whole lot of practical information about being PIC that you won't get from someone who hasn't yet been a professional aviator -- and you won't have to transition through two or more instructors during your training because he'll be around to take you as far as you want to go.

Having said this, be prepared to pay more per hour for this type of instuctor. These people are humble, yet they know what their skills are worth -- and don't be surprised if they have a waiting list.

I take issue with the "ignore the guy teaching to just to build up his time and move on" part of your reply, Doozer. There's not a lot of opportunity for people to build time any other way other then instructing in most areas of the country. Some of the best instructors I had were doing it just to build time, many of which have corporate or airline jobs ( HAD airline jobs...)

I guess the key is to try and be a professional about it. The guy who's doing it JUST to build time AND lets it show is the one to stay away from. And I guess after a few hundred hours of dual given, anyone with higher ambitions would become bored with instructing. We all have bad days, jobs becomes boring,etc. But to discount those CFI who are doing it just to build time makes the pay-for-job shysters that much more appealing.

In this "dues" paying industry, teaching can be one of those "dues". Having just become a CFI myself, I have greater respect for those who did it and have moved on. And even more respect for those who want to continue being a CFI and never think of anything else.

I've been through Part 141 and 61 schools. As long as the instruction is decent, it doesn't matter how you do it. Unfortunately, the gaps in our training system are huge. You can learn something from every one and the old, grizzled veteran can share lots of experience, but they might not be the best, might be put-off by new ways of teaching certain items and confounded by the new avionics out there. And the young guy could be a royal PITA. not know anything ( but thinks he does),etc.

Bottom line: Find an instructor, old or young, new or seasoned, that you like and work well with. Hopefully they know a little something about flying too.

 

[Doozer]

I take issue with the "ignore the guy teaching to just to build up his time and move on" part of your reply

I suppose I would, too, if I were one of those people teaching just to "pay dues" and move on.

The gist of the original post, however, was about producing safe, well-trained pilots in the context of a Part 141 vs. Part 61 comparison. The gist of my response was that experienced, stable instructors will do a better, more consistent job at producing safe, well-trained pilots than inexperienced instructors with little real-world PIC time.

No matter which Part one trains under, it's still a business relationship between student and instructor. In that business relationship, the student -- the customer -- is the boss and we instructors are the employees.

All customers have expectations; some customers' expectations are higher than others. Furthermore, smart customers shop to get the most for their money.

These aviation-related message boards, particularly those catering to flight students, are rife with stories of students going through multiple instructors during their training and their frustration at having to learn things over differently -- and pay through the nose -- with each instructor change.

It's my opinion that an experienced instructor who will be around for a student's entire training evolution is the best use of the customer's resources.

I suppose there are reasons not to choose the best tool for a particular job. I know that I've opted for the Black & Decker circular saw and Craftsman table saw over their DeWalt and Delta counterparts in the past because they were all I could afford at the time. The funny thing is that a few years later I ended up replacing them with the DeWalt and Delta products -- and those products are so far superior I'm almost ashamed.

If I'd been a smarter customer and exercised a little patience and forethought in my tool purchases, I would have produced higher quality projects earlier -- and saved some money in the end.

I see a striking parallel with choosing flight instructors.

 

[Goose Egg]

I suppose I would, too, if I were one of those people teaching just to "pay dues" and move on.

I do hope that you understand that there are those of us who look at our instructing jobs as much more than just "paying dues" even though we may not intend to do this our entire career. I see myself as a professional pilot who is currently tasked with producing safe and well-trained pilots. I don't feel like I'm "paying dues." I'm definitely learning a lot and gaining a lot of experience, but I'm not just "paying dues."

It's my opinion that an experienced instructor who will be around for a student's entire training evolution is the best use of the customer's resources.

That is unquestionably true, in my opinion, and there are those of us in the "time builder" ranks that are striving for that.

-Goose