Lets Rank Flight Schools

[tmwunder]

I have read sooo many posts about whether flying is worth it and posts about certain flight schools, but have never seen them ranked. Could people respond to this post by thinking you are going to do it and now all you have to do is pick an option. Please rank the schools in order on how you would do it. Could somebody please make a poll with several flight school options and see what school wins (i would but i don't know how to make a poll) I am leaving Wisconsin from my boring loan officer job of the last 2 years and trying a flight school down in Phoenix, just not sure which one. I visited Pan Am but wasn't totally convinced. So please rank the following....

A) ATP: Airline Transport Professionals- 90 day program for $34,995 getting you 190 hours of multi and all ratings (this is what I am leaning towards)

B) Local FBO: not sure which one but going full time until getting all rankings and then hopefully have them hire me as a flight instructor (this is my 2nd choice)

C) Pan Am

D) Westwind

E) ???? Write In's

Could people please respond by ranking the following in the order they would do it... I understand there are many options and everybody has to do what program best fits them, but what would YOU do in this situation... Moving to Phoenix and going to get all your ratings then goal of getting hired as flight instructor and hopefully in another 2 years as first officer.

Thanks everybody

 

[Tug Driver]

i would say ATP would be the best out of those options. Good reputation.

I would not listen to TabF/O. Ask him how much he has had to pay for training. The airlines look down on Tab Express. Dont go there.

 

[jws717]

Most of the large flight schools such as flight safety, emrby riddle capt progam and DCA all provide excelent training. ATA sounds very good but i dont see how they can create a wonder pilot in 90 days, when every other school takes at least a year. Remember you are investing good money to learn how to fly. make sure you go to a school that will make you a solid pilot, not just some guy with a handfull of ratings to kill themself.

 

[bobbysamd]

P-F-T

I highly recommend that you look into Tab Express. You will be flying PIC in a King Air whereas at the the other flight schools you will be flying a cessna!

You will pay-for-training at an airline. You will incur the enmity of your peers before your flying career barely begins. I believe that all of this poster's posts are flamebait.

I agree with the above about ninety days being an extremely short time to acquire a great deal of learning. Unless you can use what you've learned immediately, you very well may lose it as fast as you received it.

Why don't you check out FlightSafety as an excellent school with a great reputation? You still will finish quickly but you stand a better chance of retaining what you've learned. Mesa Airlines Pilot Development is operated by a real airline (which some would question), but you have a chance to be hired into a real job at 300 hours - which is quite unlike TAB Express. I worked at FlightSafety and Mesa and will vouch for both programs.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Check into Cochise College in Douglas AZ. Its in the middle of nowhere but the airport is on the campus. They also have a school in Tuscon. Good prices and excellent training. 2 Year degree avalible if you need it. I guess the prices are still good, been a while since I saw any lists.


Where ever you go I would recommend someplace that you can instruct at after graduation. Contrary to the B.S. that they are pumping up TAB's butt where he is, You have to pay your dues. Instructing is just about the only way to do it. And besides you will learn more from your first 10 students then you did in the last 3 ratings you got.


If you go to someplace like TAB you will find it very hard to get anybody to take you seriously. With that on your resume it screams "I am a slacker and I am looking for the quickest and easiest way" Not exactly what an employer is looking for in a pilot.

I have only seen one guy that came from a 90 day quickey school make it to the Major airlines, and he grew up in a crop dusting family. Not saying it can't be done but I have to go with the other guys recommending that you go somewhere that actually teaches you what you need to know and not just enough to get by.

Just getting by will bite you somewhere down the road, probably in that job interview for your big break! Remember you will be going against 20,000 other pilots, many with aviation degrees.

Just knowing how to stick and rudder is not good enough to make it to the left seat of a jet.......unless you own it. Stick and rudder will get you past the simulator interview, problem is you normally have to get past about 10 written tests and 3 HR folks who don't know how to fly before you ever see the sim.

 

[bobbysamd]

P-F-T

Give it a rest Bobby, the whole world knows the real reason you were not hired and it's not age discrimination, it's because you screwed up every interview you had.

And you, Captain Faust, are the whole world, right? You, at 315 hours and a P-F-T'er, are very much the authority on aviation career-building and interviewing. That is apparent, at least to me, anyway. I'm sure it is to others as well.

I am looking forward to your follow-up success story posts about how the regionals hired you with your 500 hours, 300 hours of 1900, and the 1900 type (on your Commercial) that you will purchase at TAB. That will prove that you were right and I was wrong. Therefore, in the interests of fairness, here's a link to the TAB website.

Be that as it may, at least I had interviews for which I did not have to pay, nor did I pay for training to get my flying jobs.

(I should know better than to reply to flamebait. )

 

[de727ups]

Tab Express F/O

Tab Express F/O is a troll looking for flamebait.....ignore him.

 

[tmwunder]

Thanks everybody for your input. I see how in 90 days it would be a lot to absorb at ATP. You definitely fly alot because you come out with 200 total hours with 190 of them being multi. At a school such as Mesa Airlines Pilot Development (or the embry riddles, etc.) how many hours do you come out of the program with? Are you saying a program like this may be better because you come out with more total hours, or they give more ground school with the hours? Also is it better to go to a school where you will be logging lots of multi time instead of getting most of your hours in single? Just so you know a little about me I have a 4 year degree from University of Wisconsin (Go Badgers!), so don't care so much about the college side of it. Bobbysamd you said you worked at Mesa. When you say you have a chance being hired into a real job at 300 hours what kind of job are you talking about and how many actually get hired? One last question. I currently have about 185 total hours. If I went to ATP (maybe not do it in 90 days, but the 10 month program) I would come out with about 385 total hours with about 190 being multi. If you were willing to relocate anywhere would you be able to find a freight job somewhere to build the many more hours needed. Or would I want to stay at ATP (if they would hire me) as a flight instructor? Thanks again for everybody's responses.

 

[bobbysamd]

MAPD

I worked at both MAPD and ERAU in Prescott. Also, FlightSafety in Vero. You finish at Mesa with about 300 hours. At MAPD, you attend San Juan College along with your flying, and graduate with your Commercial-Multi-Instrument and an A.S. in Aviation Technology.

Mesa is a Part 141 school. It makes no bones about requiring students with previous flight time start from the beginning - which is not necessarily a bad thing, considering that it instructs Mesa Airlines line procedures from the beginning. On the other hand, you need to decide if it is worth sacrificing your 185 hours for Mesa's opportunity.

At Mesa, students who toe the line get "the interview" with Mesa Airlines to be a line FO - in other words, a pilot position with an airline. You can appreciate how valuable an opportunity that is. Mesa does hire the school's graduates. I didn't stay long enough to see my students get hired, but I looked them up in the FAA database and I am 99.999999% sure that Mesa hired them.

Finally, without question, multi PIC is the name of the game. You need at least 500 of it to be truly competitive.

Hope this helps some more.

 

[deadstick]

I'll start by saying that I did not go there, but I'd recommend All ATPs.

First you get a bunch of twin time, and second, and I feel more importantly, they hire some of their students. Most schools that graduate "90 day wonders" (not OCS) kick you out with about 25 hrs of twin time and 250 TT. No body is going to let you fly their twin with that little time. Except for the emergencies, flying is flying. So I think you'd get better experience as a twin instructor teaching single engine ops day in and day out.

 

[de727ups]

"If you were willing to relocate anywhere would you be able to find a freight job somewhere to build the many more hours needed
Or would I want to stay at ATP (if they would hire me) as a flight instructor?"

With 385 hours you'll only be qualified to instruct. If you could get on at ATP, that would be great. I know a guy who instructed at ATP and later went to Mesa and didn't do the MAPD.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

As a point of reference,

I went to an aviation college already holding a private certificate with an instrument rating and about 500 hours, including about 30 actual instrument in everything from a 152 to an A36 Bonanza. In my experience up to that point I was equal to if not better than all the pilots I knew at the local FBO's that I had trained at.

In my first week at a true aviation college I realized that I was vastly behind the knowledge that their student pilots possesed. True I had total time in my log book but I found that the 20 hour student pilots were so far ahead of me in all knowledge areas that had I attended an interview against them they would have gotten the job offer way before I did. Up to that point my instruction that I received had focused on "just enough to pass the ride" and I was seriously lacking in what was needed to become a professional pilot.

Flying is 10% stick and rudder and 90% knowledge, at least from a pro pilot point of view. All the time in the world will not make up for a lack of a good quality ground school curriculum.

The farther you go into the aviation field, the more intense the competition for the jobs. Do not sell your self short by trying to take the quick route, you will pay for it later.

Just my professional opinion.

 

[bobbysamd]

Knowledge and experience

Originally posted by KeroseneSnorter
In my first week at a true aviation college I realized that I was vastly behind the knowledge that their student pilots possesed. True I had total time in my log book but I found that the 20 hour student pilots were so far ahead of me in all knowledge areas that had I attended an interview against them they would have gotten the job offer way before I did. Up to that point my instruction that I received had focused on "just enough to pass the ride" and I was seriously lacking in what was needed to become a professional pilot.

Very cogent comments. That's exactly what we found at Riddle when new students tried to test-out of the initial Private Pilot course. Not to mention that so many of them could not fly compared to Riddlers we trained from zero time.

When I went to work at ERAU I thought I had a lot of knowledge. Not so. I was embarassed at how little I knew in comparison to Riddle students, much less instructors. I hit the books and caught up. Another reason why I generally recommend formal school programs over less formal Part 61 training.

 

[CrewDawg]

I see you have your private and isnt. so I would try that ATP course. You have a understanding of the basic and instrument flying, so I wouldn't think the 90 day thing would be to much for you. Then maybe you could get hired on as an instructor, and build that much needed multi-time. Whatever you do stay away from TabExpress. We don't need another "FOol in training" around here.

 

[350DRIVER]

Tab,

You have got to be one of the dumbest guys that I have ever come across in this industry, you surely must have a few bolts loose if this is truly not an entire joke on your behalf. I tend to think that you are not even training at Tab or have ever been there for that matter... It is becoming more obvious the more you post....


If you are truly a student there and not "playing games" then please answer the following questions,

1) How would you describe the electrical and fuel system on the King Air 90 you are currently flying? (pretend this is your big interview at AWA or ATA)

2) Who is the DO/CP/ and marketing director there?- What is the total dollar amount $$ that you have invested there?

3) Who is the DAL guy (72/73) that does line training in 90? If you truly go there then you should know these answers....

4) What power settings do you use in the 90 when on a ILS/VOR approach?

I shall patiently await your responses, you must have known someone would question "who" you really were..


in the hold awaiting much anticipated answers,


3 5 0

 

[need2AV8]

to the original question . . .

With regard to choosing a flight school -

I heard an interesting concept phrased as follows:

How many hours did it take Chuck Yeager to solo? to earn all his ratings? how much did he pay?

Answer: It doesn't matter. The quality of his training and highly refined skills made him THE MAN.

So, when looking for a flight school, I recommend to put marketing tactics on a back burner like, earn your ratings in "X" days, for "X" amount of dollars. Instead, we would be wise to focus primary concern on quality of training. From my experience I have heard great things about the training from ERAU, FSI, DeltaConn, and Sierra Academy. Unfortunately, I have heard several stories about how ATP cuts so many corners that result in "bad habits that haunt you the rest of your career" (last quote was from a former United pilot who performed over 2000 pilot interviews). On that note, you must realize one more important concept - the flight school does NOT get you "done" in "X" hours or dollars - it is YOU!

 

[nosehair]

Rave on, Need2AV8, I like your style! It is "you", not the school who gets you "done". Our Profession is continually eroded by the marketing strategies of major flight schools. And some Mom & Pop schools, too, but most of them rely on reputation, so they try to make pilots instead of "Airline Candidates".

 

[bobbysamd]

Chuck Yeager

How many hours did it take Chuck Yeager to solo?

It might have taken him a while. According to his autobiography, he had bouts of airsickness to overcome. And, overcome, he did. I recommend his book, Yeager, highly.

The comment above about avoiding schools that cut corners is cogent. Don't forget the law of primacy, i.e., what you learn first stays with you the longest. It is very tough to unlearn bad learning. Learn it right the first time at a school or provider that teaches it right the first time. So what if it takes you a year instead of five months? It'll pay in the long run.