leaving an altitude

[mylicon]

basic question. if you are in a radar environment say fl 350 and you get a descent at pilot discretion to fl 240. for economy you stay at 350 for a few minutes then start a descent. do you have to report out of 350 . is there any time you don't have to report leaving 350. also when you enter a hold what are you expected to say. curious if there are any differences for 121 vs. 91. if you can reference the far it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[AC560]

AIM 5-3-2 & 3 mostly

5-3-3. Additional Reports ​

a. The following reports should be made to ATC or FSS facilities without a specific ATC request: ​

1. At all times. ​

(a) When vacating any previously assigned altitude or flight level for a newly assigned altitude or flight level. ​

(b) When an altitude change will be made if operating on a clearance specifying VFR-on-top. ​

(c) When unable to climb/descend at a rate of a least 500 feet per minute. ​

(d) When approach has been missed. (Request clearance for specific action; i.e., to alternative airport, another approach, etc.) ​

(e) Change in the average true airspeed (at cruising altitude) when it varies by 5 percent or 10 knots (whichever is greater) from that filed in the flight plan. ​

(f) The time and altitude or flight level upon reaching a holding fix or point to which cleared. ​

(g) When leaving any assigned holding fix or point. ​

NOTE-
The reports in subparagraphs (f) and (g) may be omitted by pilots of aircraft involved in instrument training at military terminal area facilities when radar service is being provided. ​

(h) Any loss, in controlled airspace, of VOR, TACAN, ADF, low frequency navigation receiver capability, GPS anomalies while using installed IFR-certified GPS/GNSS receivers, complete or partial loss of ILS receiver capability or impairment of air/ground communications capability. Reports should include aircraft identification, equipment affected, degree to which the capability to operate under IFR in the ATC system is impaired, and the nature and extent of assistance desired from ATC. ​

In regards to FAR best offering is 91.183(c) as somebody will come along and argue that AIM isn't regulatory (which it isn't).

 

[svcta]

I believe the spirit of the thing originated in the days before mode C or with older generations of ATC RADAR. If they need your altitude they'll tell you to start down even if you've been given discretion. And they can't assign an altitude to another aircraft until they verify that you've left it with RADAR(as far as I know...maybe a controller can weigh in), so in a RADAR environment it may be just extra radio chatter.

I only do it if the freq. is quiet. I guess 91.183(c) is sort of a catch all, but with ATC RADAR and Mode C cooking (and when under IFR) it's not really your responsibility to maintain vertical separation(I know this is oversimplifying it, don't hit me with see and avoid). Until the TCAS goes off.

 

[nosehair]

I always, always, report leaving an altitude. To protect my own a$$. I know accidents happen. We are all human.

I developed the hard habit of reporting leaving an altitude back before radar, so it is habit with me.

The new generation of radar pilots seem to think it is unnecessary, but if you are around long enough, you will hear of human controller and pilot mistakes regarding altitude control.

If you are only interested in complying with the minimum regulation, you are an accident waiting to happen.

It take 2 seconds to say "XXX leaving altitude".

 

[svcta]

The new generation of radar pilots

Yet another way for crusty old guys to denigrate greenhorn newbies. I love it! Radar pilots......ahhhh.

 

[nosehair]

crusty old guys

Thank you, thank you. Thank you vera much.

I'm humbled by your praise, and not worthy of the title.

 

[svcta]

Funny, I didn't think so, either. Carry on.

 

[skyaddict]

The AIM of course is not strictly speaking regulatory, but rather advisory. But I am in the habit of making the "leaving" call when it isn't pilot's discretion. In many places- certainly the NE corridor- controllers are usually confused by a "leaving" call that is done later than when you were issued a PD descent ("aircraft calling Boston, say again?"). So for PD descents in radar contact, I only do it if the frequency is quiet.

There are times when a freq. is so saturated I will just abbreviate everything- not right, but the best of all evils on those occasions. Until we get something better than this "party line" 1930's technology, if every pilot and controller spoke by the book all the time, you'd just hear alot more "(squeel)... blocked."

 

[mylicon]

thanks for the info. i wanted a point of reference.