Lear jet at uncontrolled field no talky !

[Vavso]

I had a situation today at an uncontrolled field whereas I exited a taxiiway and was heading for the one and only main taxiway to get to the ramp.I see a lear jet pulling out of the ramp and attempt to advise him of my position . He never responds so I decide to hold up so he can proceed down the main taxiway. Still no response . Had I been a real pr$%k I could have gone nose to nose ala amexican standoff and he could have sat there for hours with no way to turn around.. I was talking and he wasnt talking or listening . Not only that but there was another plane in the pattern and he did not even advise any one that he was holding short of the active then intio position and than departed. I turned into a tower controller for the guy in the piper and advised him of the L J . Keep in mind this happened at dusk on an overcast night. I am not sure the point of my post but I think the lear guys were unprofessional and borderline dangerous . Whats your opinion flame away. Oh and by the way it was KMSV on Halloween . If the pilots in question are reading this " whats up with that ???" Vavso

 

[Ralgha]

Well there was this Falcon 50 at my airport the other day who, while he was talking on the radio, figured that he owned the place. I was doing a stop-and-go on the runway that he was nearing to cross. As the student brought the power up to takeoff, he just rolls across the hold lines in-front of us. As I slam on the brakes and pull the power back, he radios something to the effect of "oh, are you going to wait for us?". Since he was already in the runway, it's not like I had a friggen choice.

Then, after he got to the end of the runway that he planned to take off on (which crosses the approach end of the runway we were using), he rolls right onto it and announces his intentions to takeoff...while we are in the process of turning final (having announced every leg of the pattern along with our intentions). After my somewhat irritated announcement that we were on final, the Falcon driver has a stroke of genius and decides to wait until we landed before taking off.

 

[Vavso]

like a gentleman...

after returning from the flight I just mentioned I am advised I am # 1 in front of a Hawker jet by the tower .Being the considerate fellow that I am I accept a short approach and without being asked I vacate the active at the first taxiiway which heads the oposite way from my tie down .( after burning my brakes and tires) so he doesnt have to s turn or go around and I then wind up having to yield to him on the taxiway as he is haeding south and I am heading north .I have no problem helping ATC, tower or another pilot but I think everyone needs to be a little more considerate of others Vavso

 

[SiuDude]

Was flying with a student today, while on the base leg, I saw a Baron on final for the airport (1/2 mile in front of us) doing 160 knots and not talking to anyone. He buzzes the airport and departs the area never to be seen again.

 

[Vavso]

Many stories to tell

I was landing at an uncontrolled field after just touching down on the #'s when a guy in a "John Denver" special does a low approach over me about 25 feet above me doing about 120 . Boy I was a happy camper . Vavso

 

[GVFlyer]

No excuse - just an explanation. The visibility out of some jets, such as the one I fly, is roughly equivalent to that of a nuclear submarine. We just don't see you. And many times we are late coming onto the local frequency because we remain with approach as long as we can for the additional set of RADAR eyes helping to provide separation for us from other traffic.


GV










.

 

[Ralgha]

No excuse - just an explanation. The visibility out of some jets, such as the one I fly, is roughly equivalent to that of a nuclear submarine. We just don't see you.


GV

Well in my case at least, they didn't need to see. We were announcing on CTAF, and anyone listening would have known where we were at.

 

[Lead Sled]

No excuse - just an explanation. The visibility out of some jets, such as the one I fly, is roughly equivalent to that of a nuclear submarine. We just don't see you.

There is always that problem. But unfortunately, there are those guys who seem to have forgotten what "formal pattern etiquette" is. There are jerks in all areas of aviation and more than a few of them fly turbine powered aircraft.

Unfortuately, a periodic review of the AIM and FARs isn't required to pass a 61.58 PIC Check. There are some boneheads out there who haven't looked at the regs or the AIM since they took their last written, and in many cases, that may have been years ago.

'Sled

 

[AV1ATRX]

I obviously have no idea what those guys were doing at the time, since we only have your side of the story. But is it possible that they were on another frequency getting an IFR clearance? That happens all the time - they may not have realized they were listening to only one frequency or they may have had only one frequency to work with. I'm not defending them or you, just offering another opinion. I have on several occasions gotten my clearance and forgotten to switch back to UNICOM on the taxi to the end of the runway. It happens.

 

[2000flyer]

Well, as the old saying goes...don't throw rocks...

I've had several singles and light twins operating at uncontrolled fields cut me off on final (I was flying a Citation) which resulted in a go around. Some talking on the unicom, some not. I've had three crop dusters do the same. So it's not just "cocky jet jocks" who "think they own the place."

There is no excuse for their actions. However, I would bet that if you showed me one professional crew doing this I could find 10 others who are just out having fun on a sunny afternoon. I'm not trying to point fingers but this happens to everyone.

Sadly, there are still many smaller airports out there that all use the same frequency and you'd think you had 25 in the pattern when their scattered over hundreds of square miles.

Be alert, be prepared, be patient. No one wants to get hurt or see someone else get hurt.

Regards,
2000Flyer

 

[staledog]

Last year, when I was instructing in cessnas and flying piston twins around, I used to see guys in jets at uncontrolled fields sometimes and wonder why the heck they werent talking on the frequency as much as me or anybody else. I was like, "if these dudes can fly a freakin jet, they ought to know how to talk on the radio, right???" Well, now that I am flying lears, I see why this might happen. #1, in addition to making traffic calls at an uncontrolled airport, you have A LOT more stuff to do (like challenge and response checklists that you have to do before you land that are sometimes pretty long). #2, everything happens really fast compared to flying a cessna....and #3, flying these jets, we go into towered airports 90+ percent of the time, so uncontrolled field skills could get rusty.

Example: the other day, i was flying to a non towered airport. since we were on an IFR plan like we always are, we got cleared for the visual approach and got a frequency change from center when we were about 3 miles away. i had made one traffic call previous to this when we were about 10 miles north...then we start calling out the before landing checklist which takes maybe 20 seconds, then before i knew it we were turning final. also dropping gear, setting flaps, calling out airspeeds and height AGL, ect. there really is a lot to do besides traffic calls. i still got the traffic calls in there, but it isnt as easy as doing it when putting around the patten at 100 kts. in a cessna. of course this isnt an excuse, and i do still believe that if you can fly a jet you ought to be able to handle all this multi-tasking. but now i understand why the jet guys dont seem to talk as much as the piston guys.

oh yeah, and that wasnt me at kmsv.

peece.

 

[Flying Illini]

I don't think that there is any excuse for not getting in traffic calls at non-towered airports, especially when there is other traffic that you have to separate yourself from. We operate into non-towered airports quite frequently and I understand the argument that the cockpit is a busy place. When going into non-towered fields we will slow and configure a little farther out if there are several aircraft in the pattern. This prevents us from being behind which usually leads to lots of heads down work of reading/executing the checklist and performing cockpit duties. It's nice to have two sets of eyes outside as much as possible when you are nearly twice as fast as the other traffic you're trying to blend with.
Also, the guys on the ground that weren't on the radio...no excuse in my opinion. Often times we will get our clearance while taxiing to the active runway. But there are two radios in the plane and one is set to the UNICOM and the captain (who is driving the plane) will monitor that and make the necessary calls until the FO has returned from the other frequency with the clearance. And if the field is busy, we just won't leave the ramp until we have clearance and everything is in order in the cockpit.

No excuse for not getting the radio calls in. I know that they aren't "required" but I sure would like for as many people as possible to know where I am, what type of aircraft I am, and what my intentions are...which is exactly what I want to know from other aircraft at non-towered airports. After several close calls during my CFI days (due to others not talking on the radio (several with the same crop duster who DID have an operational radio in the plane)) I feel fairly strongly about the subject. -end rant-

 

[staledog]

I don't think that there is any excuse for not getting in traffic calls at non-towered airports, especially when there is other traffic that you have to separate yourself from. We operate into non-towered airports quite frequently and I understand the argument that the cockpit is a busy place. When going into non-towered fields we will slow and configure a little farther out if there are several aircraft in the pattern. This prevents us from being behind which usually leads to lots of heads down work of reading/executing the checklist and performing cockpit duties. It's nice to have two sets of eyes outside as much as possible when you are nearly twice as fast as the other traffic you're trying to blend with.
Also, the guys on the ground that weren't on the radio...no excuse in my opinion. Often times we will get our clearance while taxiing to the active runway. But there are two radios in the plane and one is set to the UNICOM and the captain (who is driving the plane) will monitor that and make the necessary calls until the FO has returned from the other frequency with the clearance. And if the field is busy, we just won't leave the ramp until we have clearance and everything is in order in the cockpit.

No excuse for not getting the radio calls in. I know that they aren't "required" but I sure would like for as many people as possible to know where I am, what type of aircraft I am, and what my intentions are...which is exactly what I want to know from other aircraft at non-towered airports. After several close calls during my CFI days (due to others not talking on the radio (several with the same crop duster who DID have an operational radio in the plane)) I feel fairly strongly about the subject. -end rant-

amen bro. i just hoped to point out some reasons why this MIGHT happen.

 

[FracCapt]

First of all...for those of you complaining about jets not making ANY calls whatsoever...have you ever thought that maybe they made a mistake and were on the wrong CTAF frequency? We don't fly out of the SAME AIRPORT, day in, day out - so we may tune in the wrong frequency on accident and there is no controller to correct us.

Second....we're only getting one side of the story. I NEVER fully believe any story if I only hear one side. Sorry.

Last, but not least....since so many people are casting stones at the "jet pilots", does that mean we should begin casting stones at the "prop pilots"? I can give you an example a day, at least, of some jacka$$ doing something stupid and/or dangerous. Unfortunately, it's part of aviation.

Before anybody starts saying that I've lost sight because I'm a "jet pilot"....I fly jets, small prop airplanes, and helicopters ALL on a regular basis.

 

[FN FAL]

Second....we're only getting one side of the story. I NEVER fully believe any story if I only hear one side. Sorry.

Well Hoss, here's a story with one side...but it's righteous one. I should have narc'd on this bastage. It happened on Friday...a fresh story.

Mesaba is holding short at a non-towered field where I layover at. Normally I beat them out in time to avoid a collusion of schedule. Anyway, the grunts are having a hard time with the computer and they can't get my DG paperwork done, so since Mesaba is just sitting at the hold short line...I'm not in a hurry. It looks like they are awaiting a clearance from FSS and someone must be on the approach.

Well, time is just dragging on. The grunts still have their computer glitch and Mesaba is still sitting there waiting and waiting...so I go outside the hanger to take a leak behind the dumpster. Meanwhile, a piston Commander goes wizzing down the runway at what appears to be an altitude that replicates an MDA and he looks as if he's doing the missed. The ceiling is 900 ovc with 4 miles vis...and steady like that, but forecasted to go 1/4 tempo for the next TAF time period starting at the top of the hour...which will come in about ten minutes.

So as I am standing behind this dumpster, looking up at the Commander going missed...and he was not following any published missed I ever saw for approaches at the airport. He made an immediate left turn from what appeared to be the bases of the 900 ovc. The missed approaches that are appropriate for that runway require runway heading to 3100 feet and a specific turn back to the VOR. He's hooking a turn right over the runway and keep in mind, no tower and no radar untill at least 4,000 feet.

Meanwhile, I'm trying to finish taking my leak and I'm thinking center is going to send this joker out and up so Mesaba can get the hell out (this airport is IFR because it is less than a 2,000 foot ceiling ). But as I was standing behind the dumpster, I'm seeing and then hearing a plane not on the missed, but I hear him come back again, then away, then back, then away. Mesaba is still sitting there.

So I get back inside the hanger and I tell the grunts to not hurry too much, because it sounds and seems like we're going to be hearing an ELT soon and then the airport is going to close UFN from the NTSB/FAA.

Eventually the grunts figure out their computer prob and get their paperwork to me, I sign it and I get my plane started. I taxi up behind Mesaba and they must have gotten cleared because they are off. I look over my shoulder and I see the commander taxiing to the ramp by the county building.

Right now I'm thinking, if they got a new check hauler pilot and he's going missed on 900 ovc and 4 miles vis on a runway served by an ILS, while an airliner is sitting there quite possibly with a hold for release for better than 20 or so minutes...I'm going to have to have a chat with this mo-fo, cause winter is coming and I aint going sit and accumulate snow on my wings waiting for some ding dong to do the VOR approach when he should have been on the ILS. That is NOT going to happen. And although I wasn't privy to the center communication, I know this guy cancelled in the air...which is wrong. I think this guy doesn't know how to communicate with FSS through the RCO. You cannot communicate with center on the ground here. So how did Mesaba get cleared so fast?

So anyway, Mesaba is gone and I'm trying to get MY clearance from FSS and they tell me that I'm number two because some guy is trying to cancel at another field and yadda yadda. Meanwhile, Mr. piston twin commander must have dropped or picked up a passenger and he is now back taxiing the runway I am holding short of. I'm going to feather my prop and call this guy out of his plane if he turns on the numbers, I swear to gawd!

Think about this for a second...the field is IFR, this jack ass just kept a Mesaba Saab 340 idling at the hold short line for at least better than 20 minutes while he put on his missed approach air show and now he is back taxiiing the runway, cause he saw me holding short at the end and he's going to do what? Cut me off?

He must have realized something, because he gets off the runway and decides to taxi to the end on the taxi way. He has some sort of sheepish change to his voice now as he makes his blind CTAF radio calls. I'm thinking, you must be clairvoyant, D!CK!

FSS finally gets back to me and gives me a clearance, Mr twin commander is now getting the third degree from county over CTAF regarding a 20.00 landing fee he didn't pay and I'm laughing my ass off, because I realize this plane is owner flown, not check hauler flown. Him and county start negotiating over the CTAF regarding the landing fee.

I take off and start my communication with center and all the sudden I have company...the commander took off right behind me and the field was IFR! He's calling off the runway on CTAF and I haven't even had a chance to communicate with center yet!

Center tells him he'll have to wait untill I'm in radar contact and they ask him what his altitude is...he replys "1.5". They ask him his DME and he says "Stand by". Meanwhile, I'm debating climbing slow to keep this guy pinned under the clouds or get up and get the hell out of there to avoid a mid air.

Finally I get in radar contact and request higher to take advantage of better winds and the controller asks this bozo once again DME and also RADIAL from departure field VOR. He says "RADIAL?" And this controller must have known this guy went missed and this and that, beacuse finally the controller says, "Yea, radials...those things that shoot of VORS!".

They get this sorted out after they guy says I have to do something to my GPS and then he finally gets a clearance to 10,000 feet. Controller then querries him after a while about his altitude and says, "I don't see your altitude, could you squawk altitude?"

The guy replies that he filed with an inop alt transponder and that he'll report alt reaching.

And I said to myself...thank G$wd I don't work for that p!ss ant that owns that plane as a CFI saftey pilot logging or a corporate employee riding in the plane...because that pilot was the owner of that commander. Black October may be over with, but the angel of death is going to be Hannibal Lectering on that sucker...it's just a matter of time. I just hope he doesn't have to take any innocent people out with him or midar air me to get there.

 

[dseagrav]

A friend of mine with another instructor had some assbag in an Aeronca try cutting him off while he was on downwind - The Aeronca driver crossed over the field (Directly at the Cessna in question) and started turning downwind, decided the Cessna was gonna run into him (As the instructor chops the power and starts turning to avoid this) and chopped his own power and hauled the stick back. Aeronca goes up, Cessna goes down, straightens and resumes pattern, Aeronca falls into pattern behind Cessna. Instructor and student both wanted to choke the Aeronca driver but he did a touch-and-go and kept on going, no radio calls.

Two weeks later the Aeronca is spotted at the next airport over and his radio works just fine. Hrm...

 

[Vavso]

Way back your a loser ! Unreal!!

Why dont you cry "babies shut up" ?????in a 2 week period when all types of airplanes are crashing someones gonna say cry babies shut up . Its amazing that a 2 man crew "may" forget to go to 122.8 but guess what accidents happen There are 2 sides to a story . How busy can someone be flying out of Sullivan County on a gloomy sunday night that two crew members in a lear forget to make a call Maybe when the pilot and I looked at each others face he should have wondered "WowI am not hearing or talking to anyone "??? Theres actually other people out here "

heaven forbid anyone makes any criticism of anyone . Wayback get off your high and mighty throne I guess your s#$t doesnt stink the same as ours ! vavso

 

[dseagrav]

It happens to us, so get over it!!

Hey, stupid but legal actions are not any less stupid than illegal stupid actions. God put stupid people in the world so the rest of us would have someone to make fun of. Besides, a lot of stuff I "learned to do" while reading on the internet was reading instructors post along the lines of "God my student is stupid, he does (stupid thing)!" and I thought "Well, (stupid thing) is bad, don't do that." It's also how I learned to start looking for my mistake when I hear the instructor go "Hrm..." instead of waiting for him to point it out directly.

 

[Vector4fun]

Just some general observations, not aiming at anybody in particular.....

Common saying in Control Towers is "If pilots had any sense and courtesy, we wouldn't have a job."

Seems like the busier the field, the more everyone wants to be #1.

I keep my plane at a very un-busy, un-controlled field. If I'm in the pattern, I generally fly a fairly close-in pattern, and I generally announce turning base, or taking the active. That's ALL the calls I make, unless I need to clarify my position or intentions for someone else. I am almost NEVER in a hurry, I don't give a rat's trailing edge if I'm #1, 2, or 3, so long as I don't have to fly a five mile final. If you're THAT far out, I'll land or TnG and be parked or back on downwind before you get there. Otherwise, I can slow, speed up, slide left/right/up/down, whatever. No big deal. Go on ahead, just don't turn base across the county line somewhere.

I get irritated listening to folks make 3-4 calls every trip around the pattern at some distant airport. Also those folks using CTAF to discuss formation flights and $100 burgers. I used to teach at a busy, un-controlled College/City airfield, often with 5-6 aircraft in the pattern, and Commuters ducking in/out, and together we didn't need to make as many radio calls as 3 students alone today. We used our eyes, and listened more than we talked. I can't even remember a close one, but one thing we DID have, was an Restricted Area which prohibited anything more than a 2 mile final.

I think one of the worst safety hazards is some knucklehead dragging everyone else out to a long, low, final. That's where you're often hardest to see. When everyone keeps it in close, you can see everyone else. This includes the folks who report 3 mile final, when you're really more like 6.

Just my humble opinion....

 

[leardrivr]

Anyone with lots of experience flying into and out of uncontrolled feilds has made the mistake of forgetting to tune to ctaf after getting your clearence. Or hitting the flip flop button to change over to ctaf but the radio went right back to the clearence freq again.( King radios ore famous for that one.) These things happen sometimes dispite are best efforts. If anyone of you twinkle toe newbe 500 hour flight instructors think you are qualified to trash these guys think again. When you get out of diapers and start actually flying out beyond your own backyard. You will see how ignorant you sound. It was the right move to call in the blind for these guys. I'll give you that. But when you start flying into and out of uncontrolled feilds in a lear (or any transport category airplane) you will probably make the same mistake a time or two in your career. So knock that chip of your shoulder.

 

[Daveman]

Look guys; (single piston)
These turbine guys (me included) are thinkin' about fuel we're burning, not to mention the bossman in the back.
If you have to go around w/ a student, it's good practice etc....
Break off the app., hold short and let them taxi, blah blah blah, it's not an ego trip, at least I hope not. We all came from about the same place. Be cool.
Like someone said, it is hard to see out of some jets and things are going.
Saying the that, there are some dorks out there, so watc h out!!!

 

[Corona]

I think the worst Single-engine vs turbine antagonism I've seen was at the uncontrolled Destin, FL. The singles wouldn't let the turbines into the pattern, and the turbines would take the runway in front of a single on 1/4 mile final. Many 1/2 victory signs were exchanged. It was a miniature version of Mutally Assured Destruction. That was years ago; hope things have changed there.

I've seen/heard idiot things from the ramp up to the flight levels, in all types of a/c. When I was a fixed-wing CFI, there was a rotor CFI who was fond of doing climbing departures up and through the downwind pattern on busy days at our uncontrolled airport. When she finally popped up almost under me and my student one day, scaring the bejeezus out of us, I told her: "You know, I can land a 152 without any landing gear, but you can't land without your main rotor..." She stared blankly at me and remained a serial idiot.

Excepting these incurable idiots, the rest of us do stupid things on occasion. Hopefully these Lear guys were just having their turn.
C

 

[Indigo]

It was the right move to call in the blind for these guys. I'll give you that. But when you start flying into and out of uncontrolled feilds in a lear (or any transport category airplane) you will probably make the same mistake a time or two in your career. So knock that chip of your shoulder.

No kidding. Just because they were in a jet doesn't make them immune from honest mistakes. They may have been talking to ATC or FSS on another frequency getting their clearance and forgot to flip the switch.

 

[LXApilot]

oops.

Vavso,

As someone who flies both piston and jet airplanes fairly regularly I understand both sides of the coin. Like others have emphasised, I can think of many examples where I saw professional crews and weekend fliers alike make mistakes I thought could have been fatal.

ANYONE not talking in the pattern when they've got a working radio makes me a little upset. I usually try and make as many announcements as I can and vigilantly look for other traffic; but I will share two examples of when I wasn't so "sharp" and could have caused an accident. But I probably fly in or out of non-tower airports 1/2 the time I fly, and I try to be VERY good about using the radio and all the tools available to me. Talk a lot / lights on / be courteous / etc.

First - A year or so ago I was involved in a fly-in to a small community and I had the chance to take a local reporter (aka - Really hot chick) up for a flight. She in turn was going to take pictures of me and some friends and write up an article about the fly-in in the small town newspaper. We did some landings, went sight-seeing over a nearby lake, and did a few "low passes" over the local high school, town hall, etc. The local airport owner - private strip we are talking about - had earlier advised that we were the only airplane that would be up in his pattern and that he wanted us to use a discrete freq. (123.45) to talk to him while in-flight. When we decided to return to the field I just advised him we were returning and did not advertise my position on 122.8 as per normal ops. I let the girl fly the airplane and as we neared the field with the sun in our eyes - I suddenly spotted a Cessna 206 just above and to the right of me on final for the same runway. Startled, we climbed out and to the left, coming back around for another landing a few minutes later. After landing, the 206 guys were upset at me for scaring the sh!t out of them and for not advertising myself on the correct freq. Sorry, my bad, honestly just never thought of it. Mid-air barely avoided.

Secondly, not all that long ago we were repositioning the Citation II to Miami Opa Locka before a flight to Puerto Rico. We had left St. Augustine about 4:55am and were turning final just before 6am at OPF. Got really busy trying to get down/slowed down/checklists done after ATC turned us in hot and high. When I input the correct CTAF (tower not yet open) I got on and started blabbing away. Probably made a good 5 calls from turning final to taxi in to the ramp. Right after brakes set we are getting up and Captain looks down at the audio panel and says "whoa, isnt the freq here xxx.xx ?" and I feel stupid and like an idiot for making all of those great/professional radio calls on the wrong frequency. Freq almost correct, last number off by 1 click. Somebody I didn't see was probably a little mad at us, like you were at that guy.

All in all - we all make mistakes. Even the most safety conscious pilot can misunderstand a signal or a handoff. Or you could just forget to make a call, or not turn the knob quite enough. But we all are out there trying to make a living and be professional in the same medium; it dosen't hurt anybody to slow down, be courteous, accomodating, and take an extra minute or two. Help ATC when you can, but don't sacrifice safety. But remember - ctaf participation isnt mandatory - and its advisory in nature ONLY. Look out the window, remember pattern etiquette, and we'll all be a lot better off.

FLY SAFE,
Colin

 

[Vavso]

whatever ...

nothing like spirited debate.I guess tcas should be mandatory then .I will start shopping now vavso

 

[leardrivr]

Boo Hoo you little baby!
I never said my Sh!t doesn't stink. I have had it happen to me many of times. I operate a King Air out of a non controlled field, and see these non based jet, and prop guys come in without talking on CTAF. So what do you do? You stop, you watch, you try and make contact with them, and if no luck...YOU SIT. You wait until they are done moving, or doing what ever they are doing. If it's in the air, you watch them and you keep your distance from them.
I have learned that it does no good complaing about these these guys, because nothing will happen to them. Yeah, you can go knock his lights out, but how smart is that? Most likely the jet guys are talking with ATC the whole time, so dial in ATC on 2 and see if you hear him talking. If so, just listen to what he will be doing.
When I was a fresh private, I told a guy that it would have been nice for him to announce is possition. His responce "It clutters the radios freq's for real use"
Every pr!ck has his reason for not using CTAF. Most of them are just lazy. I have never forgotten to use it...knock on wood.

That guy was me! The only reason I said that to you was because I could see you were a complete self loving ahole! Oh and you will forget to use ctaf one day. It is only a matter of when. And when you do I hope I am there to kick the **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** out of you. You arogant little fuker! Everytime I run into one of you little pre madonna sqiurts. I want to take you out into the parking lot and knock that chip off your shoulder. Just because you can fly an airplane dosen't impress me. I see you pre madonna types. Walking around F.B.O.'S like your somehow better than the average citizen. Doing the endless one-up in the pilot lounge with other flight crews. Tell me this superman Why does it take two of you pricks to fly an airplane that is single pilot certifacated? I bet you would'nt last a week buy your self in a rice burner flyboy! You may be a good aviator but I would'nt want to fly with you cause you are a jerk! No wonder most of you guys are divoriced.

 

[leardrivr]

Where do you get the connection between a Piper arrow and a MU-2 (rice burner, Twin Honda, Mits........)? Anyway I love this flame chit! Thanks for being such a good subject. Punk! HA HA HA.

 

[minitour]

Everytime I run into one of you little pre madonna sqiurts. I want to take you out into the parking lot and knock that chip off your shoulder.

Which is all well and good, but say it with me....
its prema dona.

-mini

 

[leardrivr]

Prema dona, Ok thanks mini tour. I wish this thing had a spell check! A grammer check would be good for me too. I will never claim to be a master of the english language.

Get 'r' done!

 

[minitour]

Prema dona, Ok thanks mini tour. I wish this thing had a spell check! A grammer check would be good for me too. I will never claim to be a master of the english language.

Get 'r' done!

not a problem.....im just f*ckin with ya tho...I'm the last one that should be correcting anyone's spelling....I just happened to know that one from a 25 page paper I had to write in HS. Take care!