Lear 40 XR

[dmahurin]

Boss says it is time to upgrade the airplane. Considering Lear 45XR or Citation Encore plus. We operate a Citation now and are familiar with the Citation . The Lear looks like a great airplane for our mission profile. The only wild card is the Lear's reliability. Could some of you guys that are flying the Lear 40xr on a regular basis give me your opinion. I especially would like to hear from anyone that has operated both aircraft.

 

[V1 Rotate]

I fly both here at FlexJet. Both are equally reliable for the most part. We don't notice a difference between the two except for the total fuel, which is 6,062#, an APU and the extra 2 seats. The baggage compartment is the same size and the fuel burns are practically identical. With the extra 600# of fuel you'll get about an extra 30 minutes at cruise. Hope this helps.

 

[CFIcare]

Our company had a low serial number LR45 that did 1003 hours last year and never missed one trip for a mechanical. The only airplane more reliable than that one was a 13,500 hour Lear 55 that I used to fly.

So I don't buy the whole "unreliable" thing. The only unreliable Lear is one that someone maintain and fly regularly.

The new airplane (and I mean right from the factory new) that we have did 6 legs on it's first day out of the crib. In 3 weeks it's done over 50 hours, and today we just did 8 hours. Not one single squawk.

The reliability of any airplane is directly proportional to the amount the airplane flies and the continuing preventative maintenance of the airplane. It's true for any airplane, not just Lears. Let them sit and watch them start to get gremlins. Fly the living crap out of them and they are extremely reliable.

I used to fly some charter Lears that would sit a lot and we'd always pack for a 4 day breakdown. The one I fly now, I don't even take a bag on out and backs. That took some faith and getting used to after all of the breakdowns I had before. Still, in almost a year and 900 hours in the LR45 I have yet to break down away from base.

I have a few friends who fly newer 45s and they also have had great dispatch reliability.

 

[ArtVandalay]

Both are equally reliable for the most part.

Are you smoking crack? The 40/45 are both a piece of crap airplane. Breaks all the time and built by lazy americans.

 

[V1 Rotate]

Are you smoking crack? The 40/45 are both a piece of crap airplane. Breaks all the time and built by lazy americans.

This is why I hate posting any comment on here. Maybe I should've said "equally reliable/unreliable." Some days go off without a hitch, other days not so lucky. Is that better???

 

[CFIcare]

V1: Your original comments and opinions are fine.

Art sounds like one of those guys that likes to dis Lears because because he's never flown one and is scared he may have to one day.

Maybe he has flown one...a crappily maintained South Florida lawn dart maybe. Like I said, all airplanes can be crap if they aren't maintained and flown regularly.

Art: Saying all Lears suck because they are built by lazy Americans is ignorant and if you don't know where modern Lears are made and assembled then google yourself silly.

Just because you keep crashing it on MS FlightSim doesn't mean the real airplane is bad either.

 

[Tgaug6300]

What is the time frame you are looking at? I don't know what the lead time is on the Lear, but most if not all Citation positions are sold out till 1st and 2nd quarter 2010.

 

[ArtVandalay]

I've got 3,000 hours in 40/45's if that helps you and, they are a piece of crap. The "lazy American" comment was just to add to the crap that is made in America these days. I have never been grounded more than any other airplane than this lear 40/45. I know several pilots flying these privately that say the same thing. It's not just me bashing the crappy equipment, it is crappy equipment.

 

[CFIcare]

I've got 3,000 hours in 40/45's if that helps you and, they are a piece of crap. The "lazy American" comment was just to add to the crap that is made in America these days. I have never been grounded more than any other airplane than this lear 40/45. I know several pilots flying these privately that say the same thing. It's not just me bashing the crappy equipment, it is crappy equipment.

Interesting. Everyone I know that flies them privately has been very positive about reliability and performance. Now Bombardier customer service is a whole different issue....

Did you fly an early SN# or a newer one? Was it fractional or corporate? I've heard grumblings from the Flexjet folks but like charter, things often get broke, fly broke and only get fixed when it's groundable. Sure, shoe-string mx budgeting makes any jet looks bad.

I've heard guys say the Hawker 800 was the greatest thing ever. I've heard others say it was a money-sucking hangar queen pig. Guess it depends on the one you got and how you used it.

I've heard people poo poo the Falcon 50, the Citation III, the BE400...

The Lear is like any other airplane. Take care of it and it will be good to you. There are good ones and bad ones, thanks to previous owners and you have to do your homework expect some bugs until your mx learns the particular airplane's quirks.

In 2000 hours of flying vintage 20, 30s and 55, I broke down away from base 5 times in 3 years. That's flying 12 separate charter aircraft. In 800- something hours of flying the old 45 we broke 0 times. In the 50 hours on the new one we haven't even had anything "hard broke" yet.

But the whole 45/40 run being crap? No way. I've flown some incredible crap and the 45, while not perfect in every way, is a vast improvement on its predecesors. For its class, its mission and its performance, it's hard to beat.

I would recommend this airplane to someone who wanted a good high altitude performer, with good short field ability, a great payload and time to climb. As long as your trips are under 4 hours and 8 pax and you don't mind that it's not a stand up cabin.

I'm interested to hear what happened with yours that made it such a headache.

 

[ProFracPilot]

You might try contacting Eaton Corp in Cleveland (CGF). They are (were?) long time Lear fleet operators, and I know they have a lot of experience with the LR45 in a corporate environment. Sorry I don't have a contact name / # for you.