Lazy 8's - Comm rating

[ksu_aviator]

This is all you need to know

To enter the manuever, start out straight and level, in perfect trim, and at a specified airspeed. Begin by banking only 2 deg and then adding back pressure to the controls. Do not grip the controls, doing so will cause you to over control, two fingers will be all you need. Continue applying back pressure until the airplane is about 12 deg pitch up (changes slightly with each airplane type). Amazingly, by doing this the airplane will have turned 45 deg and banked to about 15 deg.

Continue adding back pressure as the airplanes nose begins to dive, again amazingly as you do this the airplane will roll into a 30 deg bank at about the 90 deg point, and with some practice and timing you'll be nose level too.

As the airplane's nose passes through the horizon at the 90 deg point, begin very gradually pushing forward on the control column and ad just a touch of roll out. Your goal is to pitch about 12 deg down. If your pitch is too shallow you will come out of the manuever high or slow and if your pitch is too steep you'll come out of the maneuver too low or fast.

The time between the 135 deg point and the 180 deg point is the longest. Be "Lazy" and don't roll out too fast, that is the most common error in this whole maneuver.

Repeat the process for the opposite direction. A left turn will require less rudder than a right turn. And finally, remember its not possible to do this maneuver and have the exact same airspeed at the exact same altitude without adding power. That would be perpetual motion. But the FAA requires the manuever be performed on the checkride without adjusting the power. Apparently they don't know about physics.

 

[JerryP]

I couldn't help but notice that with all the good advise on laaaaazy 8s, no one offered their opinion on what a lazy 8 has to do with flying passengers for hire. Why is this maneuver in the PTS for commercial in the first place? Is this another case of the FAA being years behind the leading edge? Where did this maneuver originate anyway?

While we're on the subject, I've been taught to keep descent rates to <500 FPM and to plan the descent accordingly. The reason I got from a CFI is that it's easier on the passengers. Now, with that in mind, where do 55° banks fit in? It's not being easy on passengers for sure.

I was the guy in calculus class asking "When will I ever use this?"

 

[ShawnC]

This is direct out of the Airplane Flying Handbook: "The objective of the lazy eight is to develop the pilot's feel for varying control forces, and the ability to plan and remain oriented while maneuvering the airplane with postive, accurate control." Page 6-18.

I had a similar problem with the ground reference maneruvers during private training. That is until my instructor forbad me from looking in the airplane (in fact the next lesson I had no instrument panel, until right before landing). After that well everything was much better even on some of the horribly windy days.

 

[bobbysamd]

One more point....

I remember to this day how my instructor told me that at the 90-degree point that you let the nose "slice through" the horizon. Very descriptive. Keep it in mind. Keep your head out of the cockpit, too, and that together with everyone's advice should solve your problems.

I appreciate the comment about why the maximum performance maneuvers must be done for the Commercial SE. They indeed develop your aircraft control to a fine touch. You need a fine control touch to fly advanced aircraft. The commercial maneuvers, the standards to which they must be executed, and your instrument training, will develop that touch.

Think of it this way. If you've ever played musical instruments or took music lessons, think about all the stupid scales and exercises you had to learn before your teacher would let you play a song. The purpose of the exercises was to develop your ability and dexterity to play the keys of the piano or valves on the trumpet or whatever. After you developed the necessary dexterity, playing a song was cake.

 

[Vik]

Thanks for all the good advice! I will keep it in mind this week while I am practicing.

 

[Timebuilder]

I couldn't help but notice that with all the good advise on laaaaazy 8s, no one offered their opinion on what a lazy 8 has to do with flying passengers for hire. Why is this maneuver in the PTS for commercial in the first place? Is this another case of the FAA being years behind the leading edge? Where did this maneuver originate anyway?

While we're on the subject, I've been taught to keep descent rates to <500 FPM and to plan the descent accordingly. The reason I got from a CFI is that it's easier on the passengers. Now, with that in mind, where do 55° banks fit in? It's not being easy on passengers for sure.

I was the guy in calculus class asking "When will I ever use this?"

It's funny you mention this Jerry, because I was thinking about this since I first saw this thread today.

The FAA had to find something by which a pilot can safely demonstrate his mastery of the aircraft for the initial recognition of his ability to fly for hire. A certain amount of instruction, money, and practice is necessary for the jump from private to commercial, and demonstates a commitment as well as a level of skill. Maybe this helps to keep the "posers" out of commercial flying.