Key Lime Air--New updates?

[acpilot]

Isn't it true that Key Lime's POI used to be the Key Lime DO??? That may explain why an FAA report wouldn't go too far.

I've never heard that. I know that there is a "waiting period" of a few years before an ex-employee of a carrier can act as a POI for that carrier.

And do you guys still do average bay weights for the Metro??? Yeah, wicked smart......

"Something" brought about a change to the way they handle their W&B. From what I understand, the pilots need to physically account (as in touch each box) for the placement of each item on the Metros. How many pilots actually do this is a whole 'nother story. There is still A LOT of wiggle room for the less desirable element within the pilot pool to arrive at the numbers they need to see to depart "legally."

Can a current Limer verify/correct this?

 

[metrodriver]

I contracted for KL through another operator a few years ago and what I saw was not pretty. I got chewed out once for refusing to fly overweight and to fly to an intermediate stop because weather was below mins (all on the same flight). First was the weather issue: 200ft overcast, 3/4 SM vis in light rain, fog, caused by a downslope wind and it was not forecasted to improve. My experience told me conditions would deteriorate (and they did). My only option was to shoot the ILS with a 15 kt tailwind to a wet 6200' runway (shortened because of construction, 6000+ feet elevation), at MLW in a metro. Weather was below mins for a circling.
I told big Bruce immediately after getting the weatherbrief (by phone, the real UPS pilots had access to a computer, but we were not allowed to come near it) that I was not going to the intermediate stop, UPS would be better of putting it on a truck.
So I go to my plane, see the first can of boxes show up and the loading starts using the hand-guess weighing method (DHL and Fedex at that time used electronic scales at the bottom of the beltloader, so you knew exactly how much weight was where), and the nose strut balance act. You have no idea how much weight is still to come in a second can. Vey little and you can reload the entire aircraft, very much and you can do the same. Amount of weight moved will be indicated again by the nose strut. After a while a second can showed up and it put me 800lbs over gross, which I refused. Now the Dir of MX, who had a pilot license shows up and things get ugly.

"What kind of p*ssy I was to not be able to land with a 15kt tailwind?" 10kts is the limited per AOM. Second: high altitude airport, wet runway, short runway for altitude, tire speed limits. "Sorry, I'm not going! It's below circling so I cannot go. Airport is below minima as far as I'm concerned, and it is getting worse instead of better. Besides, the freight for that airport puts me 800lbs over gross and I'm not taking that either. I told Bruce an hour ago to put it on a truck". " Well, if you're such a p*ssy than I will take it myself!" Well, have a go at it! So he dumps it all in a Navajo and taxies out in front of me. A little while later he comes close to destination and visiblity has dropped below 1/2 mile. "I have to hold, visibility is below minimums". 1 hr later when I start my descend he is still holding.......
On monday night I stop through there I asked the driver how his saturday went. I had never heard the guy use one bad word, till then. "The !@# % sob holds here for a few hour, then decides to divert to some other sh!thole, I have to drive 3 hrs, get his sh!t,drive 3 hrs back, and don't return till 4 pm. I parked the truck and did not deliver it untill this morning. Why didn't these !@# % not put it on a truck? it would have been here by 9 am! ". "Hey, I suggested so, but nobody wanted to listen".

When the summer ended I started asking about deicing procedures at my station and in Denver. We use brooms, was the answer. I'm sorry, I'm not going to stand on some wobbly little ladder pushing snow off of a metro tail, wing or fuselage. Luckily the boss ended the contract with Keylime (bills not being paid on time), before the winter started. I never had to find out how they got rid of the 12" of snow that fell a week afterwards.....

 

[acpilot]

Big Bruce was always good to me. I've heard real horror stories about him though.

 

[acpilot]

disregard

 

[afonvin]

I'm back.............

 

[Corona]

Caboclo is right. Many people on FI post negative info about Key Lime Air (and other companies) without any actual firsthand knoweledge of the operation. Here's my input...

I was once a good Key Lime employee, now I'm just happy to have moved on without damaging my career...besides having to put "Key Lime" on a resume! Like most 135 operators, they will say and do just about anything to get you to fly. That's just the nature of the business though. It's a good place to be if you want to build turbine time hand flying in rough conditions with a challenging aircraft (it beats an RJ any day!). You WILL learn a lot very quickly about weather, handling management, and flying in general. Most pilots who know what a Metro is generally respect people who can fly it single pilot in hard IFR conditions.

There are a few problems with the company though. The following is a collection of Key Lime-isms from various pilots. If you decide to accept employment from KLA, be advised:

-Don't ever, EVER refuse an airplane (regardless of it's condition)...they don't like that at all. If you do refuse an airplane, you will have made "the list." You won't be off of said list until somebody else screws up equal to or worse than you did. This pretty much discribes the company culture and the mindset of management. (The beatings will continue until morale improves)

-They may tell you that they have a waiver for duty times...they don't. (Ask to see it)

-Stay on the mechanics, a few (when I was there) will "ops check good" your write-up's right there in front of you if the plane is still physically capabale of flight. Keep the write-up's coming and they will eventually fix whatever is broken. Two weeks of "ops check good" won't fly real well with inspectors. Photocopy and keep EVERY flight log. Be sure that write-ups are clearly written and visible on the copies.

-Get used to using an ice scraper on wings and tails...they de-ice only when ABSOLUTELY necessary. To be fair, the de-ice stuff is expensive and scraping ice ins't really a safety issue if you take it seriously.

-Record duty times. They will tell you it's not your responsibility...it is.

-They will try to sue you if you leave. There is a way out of the contract...that's all I'll say about it.

-"Over Gross" and "Zero Fuel Weight" mean absolutely nothing to them. If they tell you to "make it work," that means keep loading until you can't load anymore. On several occasions, I took it to mean "be legal." Needless to say, they were very unhappy with me.

-If you talk about a union, you will be fired.

-The FAA has been known to swarm the ramp when planes return to DEN for the night. Keep an eye out for Dodge Durangos. There has, on more than one occasion, been a Fed snooping around on a Saturday looking at the Metros.

-"I'm off duty" means very little to them. Expect phone calls regardless of your duty time status. I didn't think it was a big deal, but it's a dealbreaker for some pilots.

Otherwise, good luck and watch your back. Nobody else will care about you there (seriously). Most (not all) of the "lifers"/old timers think KLA is a good place to be...let them think it. Try to make QUALITY friends (most of the loud, outgoing pilots are not these "quality" friends), keep your head down, and don't screw up. Maybe you won't get a violation! By the way, the "dispatchers" seem cool and really are nice people outside of work, but they will not hesitate for a second to report you to management for even the most insignificant mistake.

KLA has, on more than one occasion, thrown a pilot/mechanic under the bus in order to gain favor with the FAA; they do it because it works. It's not a rumor, I've witnessed it. They will say it's a "self disclosure" and that it only protects the company. That's a half truth. They can also protect the pilot/mechanic but they choose not to. Talk to anyone who has been in the industry and dealt with "self disclosures."

To summerize:
KLA isn't entirely evil, it's just a low end 135 operation. You PROBABLY won't get a violation flying for the Lime, but your odds of getting caught "making it work" certainly increase. The pay is acceptable and they do provide an apartment and a car. Normally the cars run well, but they will have you take it in for repairs when you are supposed to be "off duty." The schedule blows but it is fixed and you almost always know what you're doing well in advance. Most importantly, their checks don't bounce and they pay on-time every time.

In these times, it may be the best thing you can find. If that is the case, I'm sorry and hope that you can find something better very, very soon.

Good luck!

ACP

Man, I don't want to bust on you too hard, but...

What you've described here is the epitome of an absolute turd of a company. There are now and will be better options.

Most of us have worked for one turd or another; wouldn't do it again if I had the choice.

C

 

[acpilot]

Man, I don't want to bust on you too hard, but...

What you've described here is the epitome of an absolute turd of a company. There are now and will be better options.

Most of us have worked for one turd or another; wouldn't do it again if I had the choice.

C

Bust away...I guess.

There are many crap companies. The Lime is only one of them...unfortunately.

 

[NavajoKing]

As a former kla pilot i can say that every thing acpilot says is true. I did enjoy the flying, just not all the bs that came with it.

 

[Tug Driver]

What is Big Bruce's last name?

Couple other question for KAPA guys.

1) Does the metro or the KLA ops spec call for 2 pilots? How does their PFT program work for logging time?

2) Anyone know about Tailwind flight school that claims they can get you in with Great Lakes with 300 hrs TT?

I call bs, but only on a hunch.

 

[Caboclo]

According to the type certificate, the Metro only requires 2 pilots with 9 or more pax seats installed.

Re logging time as a non-required PFT, everyone you ask has their own theory; it's a great way to start an argument. At the end of the day, the regs don't spell it out specifically, and the FAA doesn't seem to care.

Don't know anything about Tradewinds or Lakes, sorry.