just one jumpseater...denied a ride

[relief tube]

First time it's happened in a year and a half. Gate agent wouldn't budge. Tried a search, but no luck, so I'm just curious which Majors have the single jumpseater rule still.

And anyone had luck getting by a hard-pressed gate agent to talk to the captain to allow it, or is that not worth even the effort.

Thanks in advance

 

[J32driver]

More info please.... What airline, where were you, just the useful stuff.

 

[NoJoy]

Some airlines only allow as many jump seaters to the actual jump seats.
United is one of them. One jumpt seat up front means only one jump seater can be taken-no matter how many open seats there are.

 

[BlackPilot628]

Delta is one of them as well.

Most of the time, if it's a Delta Pilot on the list for the jumpseat he or she will give up the jumpseat and travel as a regular Non-rev. As long as theres seats in the back. This will allow you to sign in for the jumpseat and ride in the back.

My rule of thumb when commuting on Delta was to Arrive at the airport 90's before departure to make sure I was the first off-line jumpseater.

AA only takes one jumpseater unless they have an agreement with your carrier to take unlimited upseaters.

UsAirways is GREAT!! They'll take anyone and everyone

 

[FreedomAList]

I've seen Southwest take 15+ jumpseaters on one flight. And the captain shook everyone's hand as they got on board. Class act all the way.


United rules suck (1 jumper per actual jumpseat), but I've been told this is because their f/a's got pissy about pilots getting to carry more pilots than they could carry f/a's. So its a work rule thing, and the United guys are pretty sheepish about it. As an aside, I think the United guys are some of the most professional blokes out there.

 

[Billy Madison]

United rules suck (1 jumper per actual jumpseat), but I've been told this is because their f/a's got pissy about pilots getting to carry more pilots than they could carry f/a's. So its a work rule thing, and the United guys are pretty sheepish about it. As an aside, I think the United guys are some of the most professional blokes out there.

You would think they would have got it in exchange for all the concessions.

Billy

 

[Wasted]

You would think they would have got it in exchange for all the concessions.

Billy

What does the jumpseat rules have anything to do with financial concessions? The jumpseat is mainly subject to union politics. At XJT, ALPA tried to get the IAM to open up the F/A jumpseat in the cabin to pilot jumpseaters, in exchange for opening up the E135 to F/A jumpseaters (there is no F/A jumpseat in that aircraft, hence no F/A jumpseating allowed). The IAM turned the deal down. Company management has nothing to do with the jumpseat, a space available free ride is probably not all that important to the bottomline.

BTW, Continental is one jumpseater per installed cockpit jumpseat also.

 

[HughBeamont]

Turning pilots away with scores of empty seats in the back is the most pathetic practice in the 121 world. It is an embarassment. I have taken 4 jumpseaters on a 19 seat aircraft for God's sake. Commuting/traveling is hard enough without this B.S.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=356919#post356919

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=37993

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=37016

The reason there is no unlimited on the majors is becuase there is no free travel for the employees when jumpseating became common. (in the 80's). Even if gate agents, rampers and cleaners have to pay $5 to ride on thier own airline it is still five bucks. Why should they allow off line pilots to fill up the cabin under the title of jumpseat for free?

In order for unlimited off line jumpseating to occur, the major airline pilots have to first negotiate free travel for every employee (FA's rampers, cleaners, gate agents, etc...) then they have to negotiate unlimited for the off line pilots. A two step process that will take alot of negotiating captial. The major airline pilots ask themselves, what do I give up to allow off line pilots to j/s... Pay? Work rules...?

In this current airline environment I don't think unlimited in the majors is coming any time soon.

In a black and white world should a major pilot accept unlimted j/s if his airline cannot offer it back? The world is grey. However, the majors will say, we offer international jumpseat. Two considerations... who cares about international. A destination is a destination. If my airline does EAS, and Capt. B. 747 needs to ride my BE-1900 to get home, then that destination is the most important to him. Who cares about Heathrow, Rome and Paris. Also, American and CAL won't let you use international unless your airline reciprocates... (although the Capts are cool and let ya on sometimes...)

I have always thought as individuals we should take the high road and let the major airline pilots ride anyway...but I will tell them to take off thier scope badge when they make the j/s requests. They can pick it up on the way out.....

 

[Dave Benjamin]

I have always thought as individuals we should take the high road and let the major airline pilots ride anyway...but I will tell them to take off thier scope badge when they make the j/s requests. They can pick it up on the way out.....

Are you one of those RJDC types that thinks more NWA pilots should be furloughed so you can have more flying?

I bet 10-15 years from now you'll be real happy with that decision.

I hope the pilots of NWA are able to pick up that 70 seat flying for themselves and get their furloughs back in the cockpit.

Regarding jumpseats it's best to remember that pilots don't control access. Management and the Feds decide who gets it and who doesn't. A professional does not try to hide his feelings of inadequacy by denying the jumpseat to qualified pilots except in extraordinary circumstances IE: the 50 Feedom guys that sold out in the beginning.

I had to buy a pass on UAL last week because they already had a jumpseater. BFD. Am I going to whine about it next time I have a UAL guy on my plane? Nope. He's already well aware of the pathetic policy and he doesn't have any way of changing it. What's the point? Does anyone think that by screwing a fellow pilot the managment at his company will make a change?

 

[Whiskey Tango]

I had three Jumpseaters on one flight the other day. It is not 15+ like southwest but i don't have any jumpseates and only 19 in the back.

 

[FlyingDawg]

I believe American is now open jumpseat. At the very least AMR Connection operated by Chautauqua is open jumpseat (new in the last 2 weeks for the AMR side).

All CHQ flights are now open jumpseat!

 

[CLE145CA]

BTW, Continental is one jumpseater per installed cockpit jumpseat also.

Not since their latest "concession" agreement. Part of the agreement was for unlimited jumpseats.

 

[AZ Typed]

Turning pilots away with scores of empty seats in the back is the most pathetic practice in the 121 world. It is an embarassment. I have taken 4 jumpseaters on a 19 seat aircraft for God's sake. Commuting/traveling is hard enough without this B.S.

AMEN!

 

[Rook]

Not since their latest "concession" agreement. Part of the agreement was for unlimited jumpseats.

Thanks for clearing that up CLE145CA. We don't need any more rumors being started.

Rook

 

[FlyChicaga]

Not since their latest "concession" agreement. Part of the agreement was for unlimited jumpseats.

Which seems to be open to interpretation depending on the gate agent.

 

[CLE145CA]

It appears some of the gate agents and stations have not gotten word on this. Why should gate agents have a clue about what is in the pilots' new agreement? If the company doesn't provide the information, the pilots have to do the little battles to make them aware.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Are you one of those RJDC types that thinks more NWA pilots should be furloughed so you can have more flying?

No, but thanks for asking. You did ask didn't you?

I bet 10-15 years from now you'll be real happy with that decision.

I already said no. The mainline pilots defined their flying. All of us make the best of the situation to suit our needs. Management has done the same thing. Can you blame them for moving narrow body flying to RJs if it is more cost effective to thier business model, was lawful IAW with RLA and CBA scope?

I hope the pilots of NWA are able to pick up that 70 seat flying for themselves and get their furloughs back in the cockpit.

Me too.... Hopefully they will scope themselves back into it.... I'd rather fly an RJ as a NWA/UAL/DAL/AMR pilot then as a vendor pilot. Hindsight is 20/20, but with current concessionary contracts dictating that furloughed mainline pilots will be given RJ jobs says to me scope might've included all flying.

If I am missing something in the history, please let me know.

Regarding jumpseats it's best to remember that pilots don't control access. Management and the Feds decide who gets it and who doesn't. A professional does not try to hide his feelings of inadequacy by denying the jumpseat to qualified pilots except in extraordinary circumstances IE: the 50 Feedom guys that sold out in the beginning.

Where I come from we negotiated the Capt to have unquestionable authority with an unlimited jumpseat policy. Jumpseating became more than a privlidge, it became a negotiated right!

That's right; a professional doesn't try and make an RJ pilot feel like garbage just becuase he happens to request a jumpseat. RJ pilots aren't the cause of mainline pain.

Look....ALL Air Line Pilots are taking hits. Beating someone down to justify ones pain isn't a solution.

I had to buy a pass on UAL last week because they already had a jumpseater. BFD. Am I going to whine about it next time I have a UAL guy on my plane? Nope. He's already well aware of the pathetic policy and he doesn't have any way of changing it. What's the point? Does anyone think that by screwing a fellow pilot the managment at his company will make a change?

There is no politics in jumpseating. What this means is, when a mainline pilot interacts with a regional/express pilot it is time to stop whining about how RJs are ruining the industry. It's gets old when requesting the jumpseat and granting it!

Last week I requested the j/s on mainline and had to hear the displaced CA cry in his Wheaties about how the RJ's are ruining his livlihood. I wanted to give him my kids pacifer, but as the requesting j/s'er I went into training department mode; cooperate graduate.

According to his sob story I should've told my wife and baby that 'we can't eat and pay the mortgage so Capt "what's his nuts" won't get displaced'. I am sure he'd set up a nice memorial in his crewroom for all the RJ would-a-ben pilots who "took one for [his] team." I can barley crack 60k and never 'took' a vacation and this guy has to sell his timeshare. Wah....

But this isn't about politics and CBA negotiation. This is about the jumpseat. I need to get to work, you need to get to work. So what does politics have to do with it? I won't tell you who to vote for, what pro issue to contribute to and don't wear a scope badge while requesting a jumpseat on a RJ. Especially when that RJ is taking one home....

Rant over, you may now return to your regularly scheduled programming...