Just heard F9 pilots are now screwed!

[FlyingFarmer]

Just got off the phone with an F9 pilot. WE go WAY back, say what you want about B6's 190 prog, at least B6 managed to keep the pilots in house. He says that it appears that F9's union leaders have decided to say that they aren't interested in securing the flying for F9 pilots, if this is the case then watch out for future whipsawing at F9, first with 70 seat jets, then possibly 318's on down the road. He went on to say that basically the union guys can't look far enough into the future to see this could be a great thing for the F9 pilots. I imagine that F9 will just end up like any other "big" airline with a "little" airline separate operation. Sooner or later the 2 pilot groups will be whipsawed back and forth by management, and pay and working conditions will begin to erode. I can see it now, well, the F9 CEO will say, we can deploy these new 318's at our new operation for cheaper than our old operation, so they are going to get the new aircraft. Perhaps when they go to replace the 70 seat jets that they "contract out" to, I think it's called Jet-Ex. Sounds like FAPA is about to make the classic blunder, no, not start a land war in southeast asia, but allow the startup of a separate operation where the pilots are staffed/hired from outside the parent operation with a different seniority list. Those poor guys are SO screwed, they just don't know it yet.

 

[Swaayze]

F9 have any scope?

 

[starchkr]

They can have the 318's...i don't think we would miss them too much... :laugh:

 

[B727Driver]

starchkr, careful what you wish for. Soon, upper mgmt will transfer ALL of your flying to the new sub company and surrender your certificate (or sell it). You will get a nice furlough letter and a spot in the unemployment line while the shareholders of F9 will applaud the huge reduction in labor cost (low wage, first year pay pilots). I hope all the F9 pilots unite and make sure one and only one list exists (flow thru if needed) to keep a great pilot group and airline flying. Best of luck.

 

[AngelKing]

Why can't you just say the airline name?


Ak

 

[kc10/c130]

Angel King

You know airline pilots talk in acronyms, pilot talk, etc. If nothing else it drives your spouse nuts. WTF over?

Back to the subject at hand. F9, Scope, Scope, Scope. Good luck.

 

[FlyingFarmer]

And Starchkr gets the moron award, let me guess? Is that place your first airline? Hardee Har Har........when are you whippersnappers gonna wake up and smell what's cookin, I swear, most pilots can't see beyond their Johnson.

Ok, let me spell this one out for all the nimrods, talked to my buddy again, while he thinks that it's good news in the short term for F9 as it keeps money that is getting funneled out to JEt-Ex in the F9 coffers, it has the potential too do this, are you listening Spearchucker?

So our/your guy, Collins says, you know what F9 pilots, the pilots at this new airline are telling me that they are sick of just flying dash 8's, they want jets, and they are willing to fly them for half of what you do, what is FAPA gonna say? And how are you going to like your furlough and or pay cut?

 

[AngelKing]

Angel King

You know airline pilots talk in acronyms, pilot talk, etc. If nothing else it drives your spouse nuts. WTF over?

Back to the subject at hand. F9, Scope, Scope, Scope. Good luck.

Been flying for 35 years. If I am talking abut Delta, I say Delta. If I am talking about Jet Blue, I say Jet Blue.


AK

 

[AnimalTale]

Just got off the phone with an F9 pilot. WE go WAY back, say what you want about B6's 190 prog, at least B6 managed to keep the pilots in house. He says that it appears that F9's union leaders have decided to say that they aren't interested in securing the flying for F9 pilots, if this is the case then watch out for future whipsawing at F9, first with 70 seat jets, then possibly 318's on down the road. He went on to say that basically the union guys can't look far enough into the future to see this could be a great thing for the F9 pilots. I imagine that F9 will just end up like any other "big" airline with a "little" airline separate operation. Sooner or later the 2 pilot groups will be whipsawed back and forth by management, and pay and working conditions will begin to erode. I can see it now, well, the F9 CEO will say, we can deploy these new 318's at our new operation for cheaper than our old operation, so they are going to get the new aircraft. Perhaps when they go to replace the 70 seat jets that they "contract out" to, I think it's called Jet-Ex. Sounds like FAPA is about to make the classic blunder, no, not start a land war in southeast asia, but allow the startup of a separate operation where the pilots are staffed/hired from outside the parent operation with a different seniority list. Those poor guys are SO screwed, they just don't know it yet.

WOW! Let the dust settle in before you wish demise on your fellow airline pilots. Seems like you are happy at the thought that we MIGHT get "screwed". Attitude like yours is why OUR airline industry is plummetting (SP) downward, FAST.

Who are you to play armchair quarterback? Although you "MIGHT" have some valid points, you could be a little more diplomatic in your approach to inform your fellow readers.

Good luck,

Cya

 

[mannyaplus11]

All you have to do is look at American, this is exactly what happened when Eagle had incredible growth and AA parked jets.
Keep all the flying, no matter what the airframe.

 

[Bubba Dog]

Just got off the phone with an F9 pilot. WE go WAY back, say what you want about B6's 190 prog, at least B6 managed to keep the pilots in house. He says that it appears that F9's union leaders have decided to say that they aren't interested in securing the flying for F9 pilots, if this is the case then watch out for future whipsawing at F9, first with 70 seat jets, then possibly 318's on down the road. He went on to say that basically the union guys can't look far enough into the future to see this could be a great thing for the F9 pilots. I imagine that F9 will just end up like any other "big" airline with a "little" airline separate operation. Sooner or later the 2 pilot groups will be whipsawed back and forth by management, and pay and working conditions will begin to erode. I can see it now, well, the F9 CEO will say, we can deploy these new 318's at our new operation for cheaper than our old operation, so they are going to get the new aircraft. Perhaps when they go to replace the 70 seat jets that they "contract out" to, I think it's called Jet-Ex. Sounds like FAPA is about to make the classic blunder, no, not start a land war in southeast asia, but allow the startup of a separate operation where the pilots are staffed/hired from outside the parent operation with a different seniority list. Those poor guys are SO screwed, they just don't know it yet.

Who is F9 and B6?

How do you break this crazy code?

Been in the industry since 89 and this is all Greek to me.

 

[Dizel8]

I will have to diplomatically agree with FF, unless the Frontier pilots wants to be, ehmm, "roughly made love to", then y'all better get that thing flown by Frontier pilots on the same list!

 

[FlyingFarmer]

Ok Animal Tale, so you cant dispute the facts of my argument, you just don't like the way I said it. Look, I wish ill will on NO pilot, I just think most of them, like you, are stupid! LOL, just kidding! Really, it was just a joke, but you know what that's good advice, and it's a good point. I apologize. I'll try to be more diplomatic in the future. Sorry Starchkr.....

 

[TAWS]

Watch out F9 guys, you better take note of what FlyingFarmer says!! Next thing you know, you'll be saying "I didn't know Shuttlecraft was our callsign", as the likes of me taxi by in a 190, with an animal tail!!!!!!!!
You should grab this now and put a stop to it!

 

[atrflier]

oh no!

Yeah! this doesn't sound too good. I bet that this is just the start. Hopefully these guys can establish some sort of scope. Scope can much more important than pay (especially if your on furlough).
Good luck guys!

 

[TWA Dude]

Who is F9 and B6?

http://www.boarding.no/art.asp?id=22363

F9 = Frontier
B6 = JetBlue

 

[BoilerUP]

I could be wrong (and I'm sure I'll be corrected if I am), but UAX carriers have a no compete clause out of DEN. That would rule out RAH, Skywest, Mesa, Go Jet, & Trans States from bidding on flying for F9. Is that right?

"The rumors of my demise have been greatly exaggerated..."

 

[ERJFO]

Does the Frontier pilot contract have any scope in it? I don't think this has to be all doom and gloom like you are making it out to be. A lot of airlines existed peacefully with their wholly owned regional subsidies. Horizon and Alaska, AA and Eagle, DAL and ASA/Comair (before sold), Continental and Express (before sold). I don't see what would be wrong with a flow-through to F9 from Jet-X and maybe a flow-back provision. I don't see these guys flying A320's for cheaper, especially with contract protection.

 

[Superpilot92]

Does the Frontier pilot contract have any scope in it? I don't think this has to be all doom and gloom like you are making it out to be. A lot of airlines existed peacefully with their wholly owned regional subsidies. Horizon and Alaska, AA and Eagle, DAL and ASA/Comair (before sold), Continental and Express (before sold). I don't see what would be wrong with a flow-through to F9 from Jet-X and maybe a flow-back provision. I don't see these guys flying A320's for cheaper, especially with contract protection.

Thats how they all should be. One list. Start at the bottom and go up. That way when you have put in years and years and move up to higher pay and bigger planes if the shiat hits the fan its not on the streets you go. Its easier for someone at the bottom to start over than someone who has been doing this for years and has alot riding on this industry. JMHO

 

[QRC]

They can have the 318's...i don't think we would miss them too much... :laugh:

Whether starchkr is joking here or not, this is not my attitude towards today's announcement. Disappointment is more like it. I am under the impression that our Union leaders were just as surprised as the rest of us. In fact, back when the whole "holdings company" was being discussed, management went out of their way to assure everyone there were no immediate plans. However, today during a webcast it is stated that the whole subsidiary has been in the works for upto 24 months. While I appreciate the growth for Frontier as a company, I am very concerned that the pilots are left out of the equation. Most folks at Frontier are happy, but not dumb and happy. Too early to know, but I for one am hoping that this pilot group will take an active role in securing this flying on one list.

 

[SWA/FO]

http://www.kltv.com/global/story.asp?s=5373460

 

[LearLove]

All you have to do is look at American, this is exactly what happened when Eagle had incredible growth and AA parked jets.
Keep all the flying, no matter what the airframe.

dang F'in straight - I don't care if management wants to buy Cessna 150's, they go under one list. Come on guys - haven't we learned anything in the last 10 to 15 years with all this contracting out stuff. STOP IT NOW.

FRONTIER PILOTS PLEASE DEMAND THAT THIS FLYING BE DONE BY YOUR PILOTS. Call you mec/lec rep and let them know, he11 give me the number and I will call for you. Don't fvck this up by letting thoes airframes/flying be contracted out - even if it is a wholly owned - you'll be sorry - mark my words.

 

[mannyaplus11]

FRONTIER PILOTS PLEASE DEMAND THAT THIS FLYING BE DONE BY YOUR PILOTS. Call you mec/lec rep and let them know, he11 give me the number and I will call for you. Don't fvck this up by letting thoes airframes/flying be contracted out - even if it is a wholly owned - you'll be sorry - mark my words.

He is right, DEMAND IT!!!! AA had a flowback agreement with Eagle, turns out, it wasn't ironclad and a WHOLE LOT OF GUYS ENDED UP ON THE STREET!!!!!
Be afraid, be VERY afraid.

 

[Pilotbob3]

The APA said back in the '90's..."we dont want that flying"....guess where it went..to Eagle Pukes....no one ever learns

 

[B727Driver]

Fight now while you can. If they get away with this, soon all will be transfered and you will be left with nothing. I have lived it, lost a great paying job because of it, started all over again. This time, I landed on the good turf.

 

[Whine Lover]

What a joke.

All this discourse over things that have been done for a "Million Years".

You see Pilot Geniuses:

Management... ALWAYS remembers, learns, and progresses.

Pilots... are MORONS who repeat the SAME MISTAKES....OVER, and OVER, and OVER...

I think it is genetic.


YKW

P.S. - And, unfortunately, I am one of YOU. ( Soon to remove myself from the Herd, due to SHAME.)

 

[SWA/FO]

SCOPE, SCOPE, SCOPE baby! Maybe if you start now you will have something before we do.

 

[Networ-King]

Just make sure you get a " no furlough " clause in your next contract and that should protect you guys without any problems:laugh::laugh:.

 

[flyNICKair]

http://www.oag.com/NorthAmerica/traveltools/airlinecodes.asp

 

[labbats]

He is right, DEMAND IT!!!! AA had a flowback agreement with Eagle, turns out, it wasn't ironclad and a WHOLE LOT OF GUYS ENDED UP ON THE STREET!!!!!
Be afraid, be VERY afraid.

I hope this post was a joke. Best of luck to all you Frontier guys. Good people and a good company.