Jumpseating to Cabo

[Hugh Jorgan]

The thread last year on this was informative. I'm about to head down there in a couple of weeks and can be very flexible as through which airports I connect. I'm wondering what airline you folks would recommend to JS to and from the US. AA in DFW, CAL in IAH, HP in PHX or AS out of LAX? Or perhaps one I haven't thought of??? Gracias.

 

[dispatcher121]

Frontier also flies there: http://www.frontierairlines.com/

On the left hand side there is a place to click for a route map.

Have a margueritta for me!

 

[SuperFLUF]

Check with the specific airlines before you go.

As of now international jumpseating is not allowed on CAL.
Something about TSA requirements for early transmission of the crew list not being compatible with the way CAL handles jumpseaters (if I remember correctly). We can't even take our own pilots.

This started back in June (I think). So I would check to see if other carriers are allowing international jumpseaters. If so you may have to list for the jumpseat the day before.

 

[English]

Hugh,


Alaska is the best way to go out of LAX. They take unlimited jumpseaters, and if you call the 800 number, they'll tell you how many seats are left and if any non-revs are trying to get on.

It is VERY hot and humid in August in Cabo.

Check out Pueblo Bonito hotels www.pueblobonito.com. Airline rates of $95 a nite, beachfront.

Dallas - NO on American, always full. LAX is much better but ony one flight a day. Alaska has multiple flights. PM me the day you want to go and I'll check the load on AA for you out of DFW and LAX. If you're nice.

 

[dispatcher121]

As of now international jumpseating is not allowed

Yup, I forgot about that!

Our own pilots and dispatchers can't even jumpseat in the cabin of the aircraft.
We have to get special permission from the TSA to DH our crews!
The ONLY people who are allowed to jumpseat internationally are TSA and FAA.

 

[ILStoMinimums]

Your saying TSA can jumpseat?

 

[SKC]

Ryan Intl operates on Mondays and Fridays one RT to SJD from OAK. It's a 757 that operates on behalf of Suntrips Vacations.

Jumpseaters are welcome to ride in the cabin.

 

[Boeingman]

Hugh:

Before you accept a ride on CAL, be sure to check your scab list for the Captain's name. It certainly would be hypocritical of you to ask for a ride from one of them when you promote JS denials for our pilots. That is translating to "any" of our pilots.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

Wow, great, helpful responses (mostly). Hadn't thought about the Ryan thing. Anyone had much luck lately with HP? Looks like their frequency out of PHX makes for good odds to get on. Thanks!

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

Feedback...

Just got back from Cabo. Now there's a fun place. Caught some great waves, caught a marlin, will have to wait a couple of weeks to see if I caught anything else, but it was fun.

Jumped down there on HP out of PHX. There was some confusion on the part of the desk folks initially, as to how to handle me, the taxes, etc. but they got it straightened out and I was all set.

When I initially called to check the loads, they asked if I wanted to list. I figured, "what the heck", it could come in handy on the return-trip side. That turned out to be a good move. When I walked up to the counter to come home, they looked at me like I had two heads until I gave them the list confirmation number. All I had to do was pay the Mexican exit tax, and I was good to go.

Couldn't help but think fondly of my buddy Boeingman as my friend was at the CAL counter right next to me trying to get to HOU, got the heisman coldly from them immediately and was welcomed warmly at the HP desk. He only had one minor hiccup with HP. The agent had him call to list himself. I thought that was strange that the agent couldn't do that, but all it took was my buddy going over to the pay phone and making an (800) number call, listing and going back up to the counter where he was issued a boarding pass.

I've heard good things about jumpseating on HP before, add this one to the list.

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

Glad it worked out

Hugh

Glad you had a good trip. Allegiant Air flies DEN to CUN, CZM, and PVR. It is for Apple vacations. If you pay the tax, we would be happy to accomodate you in the future.

Jeff

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

Thanks, Jeff. Nice to know!

 

[Boeingman]

Couldn't help but think fondly of my buddy Boeingman as my friend was at the CAL counter right next to me trying to get to HOU, got the heisman coldly from them immediately QUOTE]

A: We don't service HOU from Cabo.

B: Detail please. Jumpseat are not done at the counter but at the gate. Sounds suspicious already. However if there was a legitimate problem PM me with the details then I will get you the e-mail address for our JS coordinator. That would be a much better resolution than some blanket statement about our jumpseats.

C: Did my comments earlier touch a nerve?

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

A: We don't service HOU from Cabo.

My mistake. He was attempting to go to IAH.

B: Detail please. Jumpseat are not done at the counter but at the gate. Sounds suspicious already. Our pilots are always accomadating. However if there was a legitimate problem PM me and I will get you the e-mail address for our JS coordinator. That would be a much better resolution than some blanket statement about our jumpseats.

Do you jumpseat much? One of my problems with our current security policy these days is the inconsistency of the rules from airport to airport. I'd say over half the the airports I have jumpseated from in the last year, I was required to start my journey at the ticket counter in order to get a faux bording pass that would allow me to pass through the security checkpoint. Some places require it, some don't. At Cabo, a foreign country, you aren't getting through security without a boarding pass and evidence of departure taxes paid, thus the obligatory stop at the ticket counter. If they turn you away, you are done. I don't think providing the email address for your jumpseat coordinator is necessary. I made no blanket statement about your jumpseats. I stated my friend was turned away. Someone else in this thread did make the blanket statement that CAL will not take INTL jumpseaters. If that's true, then there's no problem, the company policy was being followed. If it's untrue, perhaps you might want to email your jumpseat coordinator yourself if your true concern is that the jumpseats are open under the conditions allowed by the company. Somehow I suspect your motives in joining this thread to be other than helping folks jumpseat on your airline from Cabo to the mainland. I don't doubt CAL pilots are accommodating. I thoroughly doubt your pilot group wants INTL jumpseats off-limits to other carriers. Trust me, I know all about being on the wrong end of reciprocal agreements. I think the majority of pilots would like to see an open-skies policy and are frustrated with management at their companies dragging their feet on CASS implementation.

C: Did my comments earlier touch a nerve?

Not particularly, but apparently one of my comments from some earlier thread touched the heck out of one of yours. Instead of highjacking this thread, why not start another under the true subject that is festering within you. Otherwise, why don't we just leave this as a nice informational thread for those folks in the future who might do a search looking for info regarding jumpseating to Cabo? If you really have a bone to pick, PM me and we'll get to the meat of whatever it is that touched one of your nerves.

 

[flx757]

. I think the majority of pilots would like to see an open-skies policy and are frustrated with management at their companies dragging their feet on CASS implementation.

FYI...The CASS program is fully implemented and operational at Alaska, as well as the Multiple Jumpseat Access Agreement in place for those airlines which have this agreement with Alaska. The list is fairly extensive, BTW.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

FYI...The CASS program is fully implemented and operational at Alaska, as well as the Multiple Jumpseat Access Agreement in place for those airlines which have this agreement with Alaska. The list is fairly extensive, BTW.

That rocks! I think the others online with CASS now are UAL, AA and UPS. Are there any others yet? Let's hope more get going soon!!!

 

[flx757]

One thing I forgot to mention (actually, I didn't read the FOM bulletin closely enough...) was this quote:

"Until further notice, only Federal officials and check airmen on duty are authorized Flight Deck jumpseat to or from an international destination."

This refers to actually occupying the flight deck jumpseat via the CASS program, and not the "Multiple Jumpseat Agreement" program which allows multiple "jumpseaters" to occupy vacant cabin seats.

 

[H2OK9]

I jumped a flight from houston to cabo on continental no problem, then came back on AA had to have a sup do it cause they thought I was out of my mind. flew first class on a 57 great flight! thanks AA. A couple of months ago went from PHX to puerto V on AM West, no problem getting there, but comming back on AA I had to use a mexican phone and call a number to get listed also, they gave me a confirm # and I went to the counter with that and was right on the plane without a hitch. Very Easy and a great experience!

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

International jS must pay tax at the counter before going to the gate

Couldn't help but think fondly of my buddy Boeingman as my friend was at the CAL counter right next to me trying to get to HOU, got the heisman coldly from them immediately QUOTE]

A: We don't service HOU from Cabo.

B: Detail please. Jumpseat are not done at the counter but at the gate. Sounds suspicious already. However if there was a legitimate problem PM me with the details then I will get you the e-mail address for our JS coordinator. That would be a much better resolution than some blanket statement about our jumpseats.

C: Did my comments earlier touch a nerve?

Departure taxes are paid at the ticket counter for each flight before going to the gate.

International JSing is combersome unless the flight is open.

Jeff

 

[garf12]

How does jump seating work? Can a pilot just go fly for free basicly on any airline?

 

[BoDEAN]

Make sure you jumpseat down to cabo around 10/13 this year =)
You'll be in for a treat =)

 

[ILStoMinimums]

Make sure you jumpseat down to cabo around 10/13 this year =)
You'll be in for a treat =)

Why on 10/13?

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

Why on 10/13?

Sammy likes to celebrate his B-day down there. Supposed to be a hoot!

 

[Boeingman]

Do you jumpseat much? One of my problems with our current security policy these days is the inconsistency of the rules from airport to airport. I'd say over half the the airports I have jumpseated from in the last year, I was required to start my journey at the ticket counter in order to get a faux bording pass that would allow me to pass through the security checkpoint.

I never jumpseat. You’re right about the foreign stations. I thought your problem was on the domestic end since you implied both of you were at the counter.

Some places require it, some don't. At Cabo, a foreign country, you aren't getting through security without a boarding pass and evidence of departure taxes paid, thus the obligatory stop at the ticket counter. If they turn you away, you are done. I don't think providing the email address for your jumpseat coordinator is necessary. I made no blanket statement about your jumpseats. I stated my friend was turned away.

That’s why I thought it was a domestic. i.e you were already through.

Someone else in this thread did make the blanket statement that CAL will not take INTL jumpseaters. If that's true, then there's no problem, the company policy was being followed. If it's untrue, perhaps you might want to email your jumpseat coordinator yourself if your true concern is that the jumpseats are open under the conditions allowed by the company.

I forgot that recently, INT’L jumpseat is now prohibited due to TSA reporting requirements that are not in place yet at CAL. Will change soon.

Somehow I suspect your motives in joining this thread to be other than helping folks jumpseat on your airline from Cabo to the mainland.

Yes, my sarcasim was lost on you?

Not particularly, but apparently one of my comments from some earlier thread touched the heck out of one of yours. Instead of highjacking this thread, why not start another under the true subject that is festering within you. Otherwise, why don't we just leave this as a nice informational thread for those folks in the future who might do a search looking for info regarding jumpseating to Cabo? If you really have a bone to pick, PM me and we'll get to the meat of whatever it is that touched one of your nerves.

Nah, I’d rather do it publicly. My position (festering) is that you have repeatedly slammed our scab pilots about jumpseating… which is your right. Frankly I don’t have a problem with your position (or anyone’s for that matter) either. I just think it is very hypocritical of you to expect these same scabs to offer you a courtesy that you would deny to them. The point is jumpseat denials are for children and accomplish nothing in the long run. Sooner or later the scab you deny today WILL deny one of your fellow pilots needing a ride in the future.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

Sorry folks, but we have a hijacker....

For those of you who tuned in to this thread for info about jumpseating to Cabo, I apologize for my inability to take the high road with this person by simply ignoring him.

Nah, I’d rather do it publicly. My position (festering) is that you have repeatedly slammed our scab pilots about jumpseating…

You are mistaken Mr. Boeingman. I haven't slammed YOUR pilots about jumpseating. I have, however regularly stated what I believe to be the only rational statement that can be made about scabbing. It undermines the collective bargaining process (I've yet to see any of you scab-lovers show me different-I'm waiting. Seriously. I could be wrong. Show me how I am). Those who undermine that process shouldn't be surprised when the balance in the universe catches up with them. Your scab pilots hold no higher or lower esteem in my book than any other scab.

I just think it is very hypocritical of you to expect these same scabs to offer you a courtesy that you would deny to them.

I've never denied anyone a ride. I've never referred to a scablist to check to see if a jumpseater on any flight I've crewed were on that list, yet you suggest I should refer to a list to see if I'm being given a ride by a $hit-bag. Hell, I have half a mind to heed your advice. I don't want to smell like last week's garbage when I arrive at my destination. I fail to see the hypocrosy in my personal actions of which you speak.

You have disrupted this thread. Start another on this subject, and I'll happily publicly debate you on the issue for as long as you see fit to defend scab activity. Until then, I beg you to leave those of us interested in using our privilege-ONE THAT WAS NEGOTIATED THROUGH COLLECTIVE BARGAINING-to get to a vacation destination to ourselves.

 

[Boeingman]

For those of you who tuned in to this thread for info about jumpseating to Cabo, I apologize for my inability to take the high road with this person by simply ignoring him.

Interesting. But laughable.

You are mistaken Mr. Boeingman. I haven't slammed YOUR pilots about jumpseating. I have, however regularly stated what I believe to be the only rational statement that can be made about scabbing. It undermines the collective bargaining process (I've yet to see any of you scab-lovers show me different-I'm waiting. Seriously. I could be wrong. Show me how I am). Those who undermine that process shouldn't be surprised when the balance in the universe catches up with them. Your scab pilots hold no higher or lower esteem in my book than any other scab.

Whoa pal, you're going off on a tangent here and I agree with what you're saying in principle. Interesting how such a simple comment to you gets you so riled up. Perhaps I am right in my initial post and you're rationalizing. Balance of the universe? Any other scab? You have made my point quite nicley soley about the jumpseat. Thank you.

Scab lover? not by a long shot. However having been in this industry for a long time sport, I can think of many examples our fine ALPA brothers have done to others that is no more different than the actions of the scab. Frankly, I am more worried about some of our non scab ALPA brothers at CAL than the scabs here today. Carrying a union card, getting that glossy magazine and wearing the pin is not an indicator of who I trust about future actions.

I've never denied anyone a ride. I've never referred to a scablist to check to see if a jumpseater on any flight I've crewed were on that list, yet you suggest I should refer to a list to see if I'm being given a ride by a $hit-bag. Hell, I have half a mind to heed your advice. I don't want to smell like last week's garbage when I arrive at my destination. I fail to see the hypocrosy in my personal actions of which you speak.

No sir, in the past you most certainly have talked about the scab list and denying rides to our scab pilots. Let me type it very slowly for you: T H A T I S F I N E B Y M E. I'm not sure I can make it any simplier.

Your last weeks garbage comment is exactly what I am talking about in the first place. You're a flocking hypocrite to even breathe the same word as looking for a ride on CAL since (especially out of IAH) your Captain most likely will be one of the scabs. Your reply here reeks with what I was trying to point out.

You have disrupted this thread. Start another on this subject, and I'll happily publicly debate you on the issue for as long as you see fit to defend scab activity. Until then, I beg you to leave those of us interested in using our privilege-ONE THAT WAS NEGOTIATED THROUGH COLLECTIVE BARGAINING-to get to a vacation destination to ourselves.

Defending scab activity? Hardly pal. Walking a picket line for 25 months gives me the right to make a comment about ths subject. I get really annoyed about the whole jumpseat issue period. If you wish to let that simple stance spin out of control to either make yourself feel or look better....have at it. My last paragraph from the prior post summed it up quite simply.

Your anciallary tirade about and veiled comments about my personal beliefs have nothing to do with the entire jumpseat issue. Quite simply, take the high road and if you're worried about smelling like last weeks garbage then do us the courtesy at CAL and look for transporation and a favor elsewhere. Is that to simple of a concept for you to understand? Yes, I think it is.


P.S. Don't beg, it is not a very mature trait.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

I can think of many examples our fine ALPA brothers have done to others that is no more different than the actions of the scab.

So can I. That wasn't the issue (especially in this thread).

Frankly, I am more worried about some of our non scab ALPA brothers at CAL than the scabs here today.

Same goes for me at my company and many at others.

Carrying a union card, getting that glossy magazine and wearing the pin is not an indicator of who I trust about future actions.

Same here. But those who have betrayed in the past don't enjoy any trust from me based on their track record.

Your last weeks garbage comment is exactly what I am talking about in the first place. You're a flocking hypocrite to even breathe the same word as looking for a ride on CAL since (especially out of IAH) your Captain most likely will be one of the scabs.

Okay, now I need help in connecting the dots. I view all scabs as scum, therefore I shouldn't seek a ride on CAL because there are a nice collection of scabs there? Weak logic at best. By that logic, I shouldn't jumpseat on any airline that might have a scab on it's seniority list. Again, I've never denied anyone a ride nor is there a scab list in my flight bag . How does jumpseating on CAL Make me a "flocking hypocrit"?

Walking a picket line for 25 months gives me the right to make a comment about ths subject.

Of course it does. You showed solid character at a time when many caved and stabbed you in the back. In that regard, you have my respect. However, your inability to recognize your comments being unwelcome on this particular thread and efforts to start a flamewar tend to negate that respect. There is no shortage of threads on this board regarding scabs, unions, etc. I regret that you can't leave the debate there where it belongs.

do us the courtesy at CAL and look for transporation and a favor elsewhere. Is that to simple of a concept for you to understand? Yes, I think it is.

Well, I've never asked for a ride on CAL and generally I avoid CAL not because of your scab buddies, but because of annectotal information from folks being turned away. Watching it in person the other day reinforced that. I understand it's not the Captains, but a hard place to get a ride is still a hard place to get a ride. Someday I may ask for one and some day you may ask for one from me. Who knows? Who cares?

P.S. Don't beg, it is not a very mature trait.

You're such a fuking dik. How's that for immature?

Finally, you talk about hypocrisy? The jumpseat is not some magical right that every airline pilot automatically enjoys. At every company, it was negotiated collectively. I can think of no instance where a scab would have done anything but undermine the pilot group's leverage on the subject (show me I'm wrong). As I said before, I know quite well about a company using the JS as a bargaining chip. Trust me, it's alive and well today. To me, not being able to help other pilots get rides as much as they help me is a worse feeling than being denied a ride. Anyway, no scab ever helped anyone get a ride in a jumpseat. Sure, they may smile and give you a ride, but the privilege was won by the loyal, not the scab. If there is a hypocrit out there, its the scab who walks up to the counter and asks for an earned privilege after stabbing his bretheren in the back. Perhaps I'm wrong, but that's just my view.

 

[Boeingman]

So can I. That wasn't the issue (especially in this thread).

Not directly, but your incessant babbling directed it this way.

Same goes for me at my company and many at others.

Careful there Hugh. You're showing signs of clear and rational thinking.

Same here. But those who have betrayed in the past don't enjoy any trust from me based on their track record.

Like how I trusted our ALPA leaders in 83 who led us off a cliff? Bad analogy, dangerous thinking. Just like the scabs, I view many in ALPA with a very careful eye. I am reminded often in listening to rabid talk about unions, work stoppages and the like on this board to those same loudmouth's within our union who made decisions based on nothing more than emotion. Track records mean nothing in this industry.

As far as I am concerned, many pilots are opportunists in one form or another. Some of the most rabid loudmouth's within the union ran across the picket line in 83, while there were some I thought would cross in a nano second based on past actions that went full term on the line. Track records and a couple of dollars won't even buy a cup of coffee these days.

Okay, now I need help in connecting the dots. I view all scabs as scum, therefore I shouldn't seek a ride on CAL because there are a nice collection of scabs there? Weak logic at best. By that logic, I shouldn't jumpseat on any airline that might have a scab on it's seniority list. Again, I've never denied anyone a ride nor is there a scab list in my flight bag . How does jumpseating on CAL Make me a "flocking hypocrite"?

I don't have the time or inclination to do a search on all 1,318 of your posts. However, you have before been advocating denials of scab pilots. I'll say it another time for you to let it sink in. Fine by me.

However, your above comments are extremely weak in the areas of your personal convictions. You're calling my co workers scum, garbage etc. etc. but you'd try and jumpseat with said same scum? What makes it worse is after prior posts advocating denying CAL scabs. i.e. my coworkers the same courtesy you're trying to attain. What is that word.....opportunistic? I've heard that word used as an analogy to another character trait by others.

Of course it does. You showed solid character at a time when many caved and stabbed you in the back. In that regard, you have my respect. However, your inability to recognize your comments being unwelcome on this particular thread and efforts to start a flamewar tend to negate that respect. There is no shortage of threads on this board regarding scabs, unions, etc. I regret that you can't leave the debate there where it belongs.

Wow!!!!!!!!!!! 25 months on a picket line and all for naught because I'm too lazy to start another subject clouding your precious thread? Get over Hughy, it's not that big of a deal. You're either incredibly anal or grasping. Perhaps a little of both? Besides, I like tossing a couple of grenades now and then.

Your "many stabbing in the back" is very interesting. Does this include the various factions today within ALPA? Our own 1983 MEC? Perhaps you're a neophyte in this industry but you'll learn that many factions carry knives. To assume that only those who cross picket lines are back stabbers is a very dangerous assumption.

Well, I've never asked for a ride on CAL and generally I avoid CAL not because of your scab buddies, but because of annectotal information from folks being turned away. Watching it in person the other day reinforced that. I understand it's not the Captains, but a hard place to get a ride is still a hard place to get a ride. Someday I may ask for one and some day you may ask for one from me. Who knows? Who cares?

Scab buddies? No Hughy, they're my co workers. For better or worse that is the situation. Nice attempt at a smear but it just makes you look immature..again (see below comment for further verification).

Actually it is not a "hard" place to get a ride. We have a very defined jumpseat policy. Those whom have been turned away probably were not on the approved list. Who ares? Well I do for one. I believe that we all must reciprocate and I am disgusted with ALPA's neutered position and non actions with the TSA regarding jumpseat access.

You're such a fuking dik. How's that for immature?

You have proven my point.once again. Case closed, no further reply needed.

Finally, you talk about hypocrisy? The jumpseat is not some magical right that every airline pilot automatically enjoys. At every company, it was negotiated collectively.

In most but not all cases. How do you explain jumpseat agreement at non union carriers then?

I can think of no instance where a scab would have done anything but undermine the pilot group's leverage on the subject (show me I'm wrong). As I said before, I know quite well about a company using the JS as a bargaining chip. Trust me, it's alive and well today. To me, not being able to help other pilots get rides as much as they help me is a worse feeling than being denied a ride.

I believe we're digressing here. Crossing a picket line undermines a pilots groups leverage in all areas. But There are numerous examples today of pilots undermining the profession without crossing a picket line.

Anyway, no scab ever helped anyone get a ride in a jumpseat. Sure, they may smile and give you a ride, but the privilege was won by the loyal, not the scab. If there is a hypocrite out there, its the scab who walks up to the counter and asks for an earned privilege after stabbing his brethren in the back. Perhaps I'm wrong, but that's just my view.

I think your view is narrow-minded about this "privilege" issue. My point, again in calling you a hypocrite is very simple. Your beliefs and your opinions about our scabs are your right. Your disdain boils through and I can relate to that because I was there was once, long ago. However to feel like you do then to ask for a ride from one of our scabs to me shows a complete lack of character, backbone and conviction. Like the opportunist I mentioned before.

I know I am risking life and limb here by broaching a new subject, but you're an aviation mystery here. How does one fly in the Naval multi engine community, to go to the Air Force to fly not only F-16's but also an obsolete, long retired aircraft that as memory serves me only a couple of guard units flew in the end of it's service life (the A-37) ? And with all this experience you're flying a DHC-8?

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

I'm out

Boeingman, you have me pegged. You've outted me. I'm just going to slink away. I can be found with all the other immature, backboneless, hypocritical, incessantly babbling, unforgiving, narrow-minded, opportunistic, aviation men of mystery who lack character and personal conviction.

 

[Boeingman]

Boeingman, you have me pegged. You've outted me. I'm just going to slink away. I can be found with all the other immature, backboneless, hypocritical, incessantly babbling, unforgiving, narrow-minded, opportunistic, aviation men of mystery who lack character and personal conviction.

Yep, that about sums it up nicely. Should we add imposter as well? I didn't think you'd be able to justfy the military claims.