Jumpseat

[1900dr]

Just had a Q on jumpseating. Anyone who flies for a fractional know if there are jumpseat agreements with the 121 guys--regional or majors? Would appreciate some feedback. I'm considering a fractional company but would not be able to live at the domicile right away.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Just had a Q on jumpseating. Anyone who flies for a fractional know if there are jumpseat agreements with the 121 guys--regional or majors? Would appreciate some feedback. I'm considering a fractional company but would not be able to live at the domicile right away.

In a word, no. Nothing guaranteed anyway.

The IBT 1108 came up with all of the protocols necessary to participate in CASS and our management team hasn't returned our phone calls since at the Union (to get their authorization).

All major airlines were on board with our program.

Guess they never thought we'd get that far. They never thought alot of things though when it came to the Union.

 

[mckpickle]

Not all airlines will take frac guys. Express Jet is one that will not. The reason is that the fracs cannot/will not reciprocate. And the ones that can/do can leave you stranded when there is a change of plans enroute.

 

[NJAmerica]

McPickle -

If we could guarantee you a reciprocal seat on a fractional flight I for one would ensure that you would always travel.However the nature of our business is constant change unlike your airline schedule.
Why do you need this in order to offer a professional courtesy.A lot of pilot's in the fractional world came from the regionals and majors and have more than paid their dues.Who knows you might be changing your career path in the near future and need that ride to work.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Not all airlines will take frac guys. Express Jet is one that will not. The reason is that the fracs cannot/will not reciprocate. And the ones that can/do can leave you stranded when there is a change of plans enroute.

For those that are unfamiliar with the situation, including Mayor McPickle...

All concerns made by the 121 airlines, including reciprocity, were addressed and solved. All of them.

All of the majors and RJ airlines (including the coveted Express Jet) signed off on the NJA protocols. All of them.

NJA management failed to deliver on all of their promises to approve the program IF we obtained the approved protocols. All of them.

Apparently RTS didn't want pilot "rif raf" on Owner aircraft.

Complete B.S.

 

[mckpickle]

McPickle -

If we could guarantee you a reciprocal seat on a fractional flight I for one would ensure that you would always travel.However the nature of our business is constant change unlike your airline schedule.
Why do you need this in order to offer a professional courtesy.A lot of pilot's in the fractional world came from the regionals and majors and have more than paid their dues.Who knows you might be changing your career path in the near future and need that ride to work.

Trust me, I'd love to help everyone. The problem is how do we decide who to take. You show up to a flight and a Delta guy shows up. If your first do you get to ride? How about the Delta guy who can offer his courtesy to one of our pilots? The thing at issue is that fracs are unable to offer the same courtesy. Lets face it, when an owner pays to fly, they don't want someone else catching a free ride. Airline guys are able to offer a ride but the frac guys cannot. By us offering a ride to someone who cannot reciprocate increases the number of people fighting for seats and dilutes the benefit to those who can help out.

 

[mckpickle]

For those that are unfamiliar with the situation, including Mayor McPickle...

All concerns made by the 121 airlines, including reciprocity, were addressed and solved. All of them.

All of the majors and RJ airlines (including the coveted Express Jet) signed off on the NJA protocols. All of them.

NJA management failed to deliver on all of their promises to approve the program IF we obtained the approved protocols. All of them.

Apparently RTS didn't want pilot "rif raf" on Owner aircraft.

Complete B.S.

I'm not sure what I have done to illicite the attitude of you post however I am sorry and wish we could take everyone. I'm not sure what exactly you are talking about. XJT has signed off on nothing. I've been the JS chairman for over 2 years at XJT and don't know anything about this or the NJA protocols. Maybe it was before my time, however nothing has been "signed off on" as far as I know.

 

[jaybird]

if you can get past the gate agent, you can ride on my aircraft.

 

[NJAmerica]

Mcpickle -

It is pretty obvious that the fractionals would be unable to offer a seat on an occupied owner flight.You talk of reciprocal agreements but do not seem to grasp that we all work in the same industry.Forget 121/91k/135 we are all pilots that need help to get to work.I suggest that you get off your High Horse and try and foster relationships that might benefit you once CAL take your employee travel later this year.

 

[mckpickle]

Mcpickle -

It is pretty obvious that the fractionals would be unable to offer a seat on an occupied owner flight.You talk of reciprocal agreements but do not seem to grasp that we all work in the same industry.Forget 121/91k/135 we are all pilots that need help to get to work.I suggest that you get off your High Horse and try and foster relationships that might benefit you once CAL take your employee travel later this year.

Maybe you need to look up the definition of RECIPROCAL. Besides, many fractionals airline their pilots to work, don't they. And thanks for the advice on on the CAL pass benefits and my high horse. I still don't see how a fractional is going to benefit us. I DO see how it will hurt us when we leave other pilots, who DO give us rides, at the gate while you are on board.

 

[FLYLOW22]

I'm not sure what I have done to illicite the attitude of you post however I am sorry and wish we could take everyone. I'm not sure what exactly you are talking about. XJT has signed off on nothing. I've been the JS chairman for over 2 years at XJT and don't know anything about this or the NJA protocols. Maybe it was before my time, however nothing has been "signed off on" as far as I know.

No attitue sir. Before your time.

The "rif raf" comment was made about other pilots by our management.

You guys rock. We had an awesome program lined up and our management shot it down.

No free rides. There must be reciprocity or it wouldn't be right...

 

[FLYLOW22]

Maybe you need to look up the definition of RECIPROCAL. Besides, many fractionals airline their pilots to work, don't they. And thanks for the advice on on the CAL pass benefits and my high horse. I still don't see how a fractional is going to benefit us. I DO see how it will hurt us when we leave other pilots, who DO give us rides, at the gate while you are on board.

You of all people shoudl know about jumpseat priority... you know, as Jumpseat Chairman for 2 years .

I'm sure fractional guys would get a lower priority if that were the idea... or you could just fill open seats... there are several options available.

What would a 121 guy do with jumpseat ability on a NJA airplane? Have fun! It's a real kick to be able to get on a private jet (maybe with a wife or girlfriend as well?? hmmmmm.) and go on a little adventure.

I would NOT suggest trying to use NJA as a commute method.



But as the Jumpseat program is dead, may we assist you with something over here in Frax land?

 

[Tref]

I'm thinking that mckpickle doesn't understand that a high percentage of fractional flights are repos, with no owners onboard. That is how the fractionals would be able to reciprocate.

No schedule like the airlines, but tell me how often a jumpseater gets a whole corporate jet to themselves, on a flight to Europe, the Caribean, South America, or wherever.

 

[FLYLOW22]

I'm thinking that mckpickle doesn't understand that a high percentage of fractional flights are repos, with no owners onboard. That is how the fractionals would be able to reciprocate.

No schedule like the airlines, but tell me how often a jumpseater gets a whole corporate jet to themselves, on a flight to Europe, the Caribean, South America, or wherever.

I don't think he realizes we have over 600 airplanes worldwide either, but....

it doesn't matter without management approval.

 

[dash_trash]

Options pilots can actually jumpseat on both Airtran and ATA. Don't ask me how/who pulled that one off, but I have never heard of folks running into any problems.

One of the few things mgmt seems to have done right.

 

[jtf]

McPickle- do you ever jump on UPS or Fedex? Do they ever jump on you? I dont know if you guys have CASS yet, but quite a few "regionals" don't and they all let UPS and Fedex ride. Even if you guys do have CASS now there were years that that reciprocity did not exist. I guess you can ship your packages cheap so I you get something for it, but even though I thought it sucked that I couldn't ride on Fedex of UPS when I was an allmighty Jungle Jet captain, I gladly allowed every one of their pilots who asked onto my airplane if there was room. NJ has a daily list of ferry flights available to all employees that could easily be made available to potential jumpseaters if our own management would actually do what they promised. While the flights would definitely be limited, "jumpseating" on a NJ flight would be pretty awesome if done.

 

[Cavpilot]

Options pilots can actually jumpseat on both Airtran and ATA. Don't ask me how/who pulled that one off, but I have never heard of folks running into any problems.

One of the few things mgmt seems to have done right.

Just about anyone can jumpseat on certain carriers. That doesn't mean that there are agreements in place. ATA, for example, has an open jumpseat policy. Unless you are a total dick and piss off the captain, you will probably get a ride.

 

[mckpickle]

McPickle- do you ever jump on UPS or Fedex? Do they ever jump on you? I dont know if you guys have CASS yet, but quite a few "regionals" don't and they all let UPS and Fedex ride. Even if you guys do have CASS now there were years that that reciprocity did not exist. I guess you can ship your packages cheap so I you get something for it, but even though I thought it sucked that I couldn't ride on Fedex of UPS when I was an allmighty Jungle Jet captain, I gladly allowed every one of their pilots who asked onto my airplane if there was room. NJ has a daily list of ferry flights available to all employees that could easily be made available to potential jumpseaters if our own management would actually do what they promised. While the flights would definitely be limited, "jumpseating" on a NJ flight would be pretty awesome if done.

Yes we are in CASS. We are restricted from Fedex because we don't have the cass system updated with photographs, and Fedex requires them. UPS on the other hand is in contract negotiations. Their management will not add any other cass members as a way to try and get us to cancel their JS rights. I obviously don't want to participate in helping their management hurt the collective bargaining of their pilots. That being said, Fedex and UPS offer way more of a bennefit than Net Jets ever will. Once we get everything worked out I betcha 25 people a day will use them. I highly doubt 25 people a month would use Net Jets. I am not opposed to an agreement with them if their policy changes nor am I opposed to hearing what they may have to offer, however AT THIS TIME, the fractionals offer no bennefit and have way to many pilots to risk diluting our jumpseats for. Sorry but thats just the way it is.

I really didn't expect so many people to get bent out of shape about this. You guys had a choice when looking for work. One drawback to the corperate life was lack of flight benefits. Which I'm told however that you make up for with a lot more pay and the frequent flyer miles.

 

[Tref]

the fractionals offer no bennefit and have way to many pilots to risk diluting our jumpseats for.

You, my friend, are a complete jackass.

 

[mckpickle]

You, my friend, are a complete jackass.

Ya, that'll make me change my mind on the issue.