Jump Seat Usage

[TXDA2000]

Guys,

How do you handle occupation of a third crewmember seat. Aircraft in question is a Falcon 2000, but this applies to most any jet.

Nobody but a pilot or certified flight attendant?

Brief the able bodied pax on egress procedures, doors, rafts, etc. Have him sign the extra crewmember form and sit him down?

What are the required certifications, if any, by FAR for a part 91 flight attendant/third crewmember?

Thanks for your opinions.

 

[check6]

Show them how to operate the jumpseat to start. Then show them the emergency exits and how to use them. Point out where all of the flight deck emergency equipment is(Crash Axe, Escape Rope, PBE's, Oxygen, Lifevest, etc.). Ask them if they have any questions. Invite them to be a part of the crew and SPEAK UP if they see anything that YOU or the pilot may be doing wrong. If you require a sterile cockpit up to a certain altitude(ie, 10,000 or 18,000) let them know.

As far as requirements, I'm sure the briefing is a big part of it.

 

[Dinger]

We do not allow anyone in the jump unless they are an crewmember. That is our policy. I am not aware of any regulations regarding occupancy of the jumpseat under part 91. We just don't allow it.

Not only does it expose the flight crew to unnecessary disruptions, it may also allow them to see something we may not want them to. We run a pretty tight ship and follow the MEL, but the less a passenger knows, the better.

Another example would be a traffic alert. It is fairly common in many busy areas, but who knows how the passenger is going to react. The last thing we need to be doing is explaining how the TCAS works when we should be heads up in a scan for possible traffic conflicts.

 

[O-Line]

Guys,

How do you handle occupation of a third crewmember seat. Aircraft in question is a Falcon 2000, but this applies to most any jet.

Nobody but a pilot or certified flight attendant?

Brief the able bodied pax on egress procedures, doors, rafts, etc. Have him sign the extra crewmember form and sit him down?

What are the required certifications, if any, by FAR for a part 91 flight attendant/third crewmember?

Thanks for your opinions.

I believe there is a SL from Dassault stating that the jumpseat is not to be used for take off or landing, i.e. it's not a legal seat.

 

[caseyd]

Show them how to operate the jumpseat to start. Then show them the emergency exits and how to use them. Point out where all of the flight deck emergency equipment is(Crash Axe, Escape Rope, PBE's, Oxygen, Lifevest, etc.). Ask them if they have any questions. Invite them to be a part of the crew and SPEAK UP if they see anything that YOU or the pilot may be doing wrong. If you require a sterile cockpit up to a certain altitude(ie, 10,000 or 18,000) let them know.

As far as requirements, I'm sure the briefing is a big part of it.

Assuming there is nothing to prohibit their presence, it seems to me that an opportunity exists to demonstrate the activities of a well run and disciplined cockpit. Ground rules are necessary. Sterile cockpits are safer cockpits and present to an inexperienced viewed the appearance of pilots attending closely to their tasks. Clear pre-departure briefings regarding egress, emergency equipment and expectation regarding communications present the appearance of a knowledgable and serious flight crew while insuring you are not disturbed. And inviting comment (rather than asking them to point out mistakes) should they have a concern creates an open enviornment while demonstrating how a professionally operated cockpit should uses all resources available to increase safety.

Remember that in the end you will leave the observer with an impression. That impression is yours to create.

caseyd

 

[Dinger]

caseyd.....those are some very valid points. I don't believe, however, that one needs to ride in the jump to observe a professional, knowledgable and serious flilght crew. It is our responsibility to blow that smoke at all times.

I am sure your policy works great. It sounds like you operate in a very professional manner and work for a quality flight department. I guess the difference in our company policies shows that there is more than one way to
skin a cat.

 

[caseyd]

caseyd.....those are some very valid points. I don't believe, however, that one needs to ride in the jump to observe a professional, knowledgable and serious flilght crew. It is our responsibility to blow that smoke at all times.

I am sure your policy works great. It sounds like you operate in a very professional manner and work for a quality flight department. I guess the difference in our company policies shows that there is more than one way to
skin a cat.

Dinger,

Of course you are correct that we "blow this smoke" all the time. And don't read me wrong, I do not at all believe non-pilot occupants of the J/S should be the norm. To the contrary, it's a privledge granted few. And there are many ways to skin the cat. I make no judgement as to another's policy. The crafters and their fellows must live with it and that should provide incentive enough for one to craft wisely.

If I may be allowed a moment on a soapbox. I have no doubt you're a pro and conduct yourself as such at every level. But I would suggest, not just to you Dinger but to all of us in this field, that we refrain from suggesting, even amongst ourselves that there is smoke blowing going on. When such thought seep into our conscienceness they slip out at unintended moments. Remember always that the responsibility you shoulder when you strap on that jet, be it with 1 or 400 souls behind you, is a very real one. We all accept it, to frequently without thought. We shouldn't. It's what we are paid for.

caseyd

 

[Dinger]

I guess the phrase "blow that smoke" came accross incorrectly. I didn't mean that we need to fool them into thinking we are competent. I meant it in more of a manor of carrying ourselves as professionals both inside and outside of the cockpit. I shall choose my words more wisely.

Dinger

 

[falconpilot]

I believe there is a SL from Dassault stating that the jumpseat is not to be used for take off or landing, i.e. it's not a legal seat.

Don't know where you found that???? What is the jump seat good for then if its not a legal seat?

 

[2EASYPilot]

I believe the Dassault placard states the jump seat can only be occupied by a crewmember. Hard to remenber all those placards though...(-_-).

 

[caseyd]

I guess the phrase "blow that smoke" came accross incorrectly. I didn't mean that we need to fool them into thinking we are competent. I meant it in more of a manor of carrying ourselves as professionals both inside and outside of the cockpit. I shall choose my words more wisely.

Dinger

I understand what you mean Dinger and did interpret it as you suggest. It was just my little rant encouraging all of us to look the part and act the part so as to get paid and respect for the part.

Regards,

caseyd

 

[sydeseet]

Our pax started to "overuse" the privelage ("Hey can I sit up here????" 500' above minimums) so the SL from Dassault was just the answer to have a concrete reason to eliminate the privelage. All of them have been very understanding. If the seat wasn't such a handful to re-stow in the event of an egress it wouldn't be a big deal. I'd hate to leave shoe prints all over anyone because they couldn't get their belt undone.......

 

[135fr8r]

Anyone know the regulations regarding part 91?

 

[caseyd]

Anyone know the regulations regarding part 91?

I believe part 91 allows the operator to do as they please. The FAA's regulatory philosophy assumes owners have the knowledge to operate the plane wisely in accordance with their own wishes. When you get to transportation for hire (ie. 135 or 121) the philosophy of the regulators seems to assume the passenger has less experience and therefore needs more protection which the FAA provides in the form of rules and oversight.

caseyd

 

[Dinger]

I believe the only regulations regarding jumpseat usage under part 91 are those (limitations) that may be listed in the AFM (".....may not operate aircraft outside of aircraft limitations as listed in the AFM".....) or something like that.

So, in a sense, what caseyd said!