Job Fair Advice

[bptham]

Hey guys,
I know this might be a little late but there's a job fair/seminar going on this weekend in Dallas. Looking at the itinerary tonight I noticed that a few of the airlines will be conducting interviews on-site. Is there anything I should be boning(no pun!) up on? As always, thanks for the advice, you guys rock...Ben

 

[FLYHY]

I too will be attending on Saturday, and haven't been sure what to study myself. I've been reviewing my a/c's systems, FAR 91/121 regs, ATP written, ATP oral guide, and any main points that could be covered easily. I think that the companies that will be there, even the ones who are not hiring, are looking for people that have a good general understanding of flying plus someone they wouldn't mind being with in a cockpit for an extended period of time. Hope this helps - see you there.

 

[tie1on]

good luck, but remember not sell yourself short by working for free like most of your counterparts, who wanted to fly jets. 90% of those who enter aviation will never see the cockpit of a legacy carrier. I hope your career expectations are not too high, you surely will be dissapointed..

 

[Lear70]

Knowing your aircraft and regs is a must, but make sure you can answer all the TAAT questions. Almost all of the companies out there have shifted to a more HR-based interview process which tries to find out what kind of person you are by the decisions you've made in flying situations. Your flying knowledge and ability naturally comes out in these discussions most of the time.

Be able to explain basic questions like conflict resolution, hardest flying decision you've made, time when you had to write someone up, time when you were able to help someone, stuff like that. Make sure you can tell the story quickly, concisely, and if it's a negative story, don't try to sugar-coat it, but explain what you learned from it / how and why it won't happen again.

Most interview prep people will tell you that no one concentrates hard enough on this part of the interview. Good luck!

And oh yeah, stay away from HoJets

 

[bptham]

Thanks for the info guys. I appreciate it. I have a question for tie1on. You mentioned in your post that 90% of people won't see the cockpit of a legacy carrier. My question to you is why not? I guess I'm at that that point where it's getting close to fish or cut bait time as far as being a professional pilot goes. I have some opportunities outside of flying but flying, unfortunately, is my passion. I do have a bachelors degree in Engineering so if I get my 1000-2000 hours of PIC turbine time, what would be holding me back from a legacy carrier such as CAL or SWA? At least according to a couple of websites, CAL's times are 1500tt, 1000 turbine. These times aren't unattainable, or at least they don't seem unattainable. Am I missing the boat here? I understand that getting into this industry is a gamble. Especially these days. I guess my long term plan was put my time in paying my dues at the regionals for 5-7 years, get my turbine PIC built up and then move on to a legacy. Thanks again guys...Later...

 

[gator_hater]

Tie1On is just bitter...network, keep the nose clean and be one of the 10% who does. This industry is up in the air and coud go either way at this point...

 

[Leroy Smith]

Thanks for the info guys. I appreciate it. I have a question for tie1on. You mentioned in your post that 90% of people won't see the cockpit of a legacy carrier. My question to you is why not? .............

Sorry to poop on your parade, but those minimums wont get you on with CAL or SWA anytime in the near future. Right now there are 1000's of guys with more time and more experience trying to get on. With how much harder it is to get into aviation (I heard a couple of flightschools insurance requiring 300ME to work as an MEI), the number of new pilots may decrease somewhat, but it will be a LOT of years before the legacies will be hiring with anything remotely close to those published minimums. Maybe it would work if you got that PIC time in an F-16 or C-17, etc.

If you want to go to a regional, be sure its someplace you would want to be for a good long time. If you are young, it could work out pretty well. 10-15 years at a regional, sucky to start but with a decent QOL for the last 1/2-1/3 and then get a shot at a major with some time left to build up enough seniority to make it worthwile.

...IF the the whole industry isnt run my Mesa International by then.

 

[bptham]

No, there's no poop involved. It's the stuff like your post that I need to hear to make an informed decision. Thanks.

 

[Lear70]

First, SWA isn't a "Legacy Carrier" in the true sense. Major? Yes. Legacy Carrier. No.

Consider that all the legacy carriers EXCEPT CAL have at least 1,000 pilots or so EACH on furlough. Add to that the FACT that they're trying to oursource all their DC-9 equivalent flying (70-90 seat RJ's) and those furloughed guys will be lucky to see the property again in 7-10 YEARS... much less new-hires.

For you, if you're in your 20's, you MIGHT see a Legacy Carrier by 35 to 40. Maybe. Depends on how it all plays out with the LCC's and the Regional's race to the bottom.

Getting on with any of those takes CONNECTIONS, for the most part, as someone else mentioned. You need at least ONE, if not TWO or THREE Letters of Recommendation to get on at most companies right now. You'll hear a FEW success stories out of SWA about people who got the interview and the job without them, but most people have at least one.

For me, being 35 this October, 7,000 hours total time, previous Boeing command time plus the CRJ time I have now, 4,000 Jet PIC, lots of 121 time, and I can't seem to get my foot in the door even with a few LOR's, I'm here to tell you it's NOT just getting the flight time.

I should have been a plastic surgeon. Ever watch Dr. 90210? *SIGH*

 

[bptham]

I hear ya. I should have gone back to get my masters and stayed working at the refineries. Being in the oil industry doesn't exactly suck right now. Oh well...

 

[ksu_aviator]

When it comes to job fairs I can think of a lot of other things you can spend your money on that would be more useful. Like 2 gross of toothpicks or 500 beenie babies (those things might come back someday). I've been to this exact job fair a few years ago and never...repeat...never reached one employer that was hiring. I think there where probably 5,000 pilots there and the lines where outrageously long. You might be able to reach them if you show up early, get your name tag, leave and then come back just before the so called seminar lets out. That gives you the best chance for being in line first, but even that doesn't gaurantee you'll get any consideration.

Plus, you can walk in with out paying for the conference and no body will know.

 

[Lear70]

Plus, you can walk in with out paying for the conference and no body will know.

What was that about ethics and airline H.R. background checks?

I started going to job fairs early on, like 1,200 hours, but wouldn't pay for my job at any of the regionals (commuters at the time) and they all required it so I didn't get squat.

Once I hit about 2,500 hours I went again, nothing. Got my first Lear job and my Flexjet job AND my 727 job just answering ads on the aviation job boards.

Once I hit about 3,000 hours, I started seeing some results. United gave me an interview at 3,500, got an offer from Netjets for an interview about the same time, both from Kit Darby's career fair.

My current job at Pinnacle I picked up at the LAX job fair in April 2001 just prior to 9/11. My Southwest interview I have NO doubt was a direct result of going to the career fair and afterwards to the reception - I had been applying for a couple years and the interview call came 90 days after the job fair. Coincidence? Doubt it.

Hasn't gotten me on with any of those, I screwed up my interview with United, turned down the Netjets interview to come here to Pinnacle (kick myself for this daily), and I passed the Southwest interview but didn't pass the Review Board - still don't know why.

Long story short, the job fairs WORK to a certain extent. Especially at the regional level. Just make sure your experience is comparable with your peers there at the job fair. If you don't have comparable experience, at least listen during the presentation... I don't even show up at the fair anymore until the luncheon, but the morning stuff is good info if you've never heard it before.

 

[Palomino]

we are losing more than 10% a year to major airlines. it's happening. most of my friends have recently interviewed with major carriers. regular guys, no military.

a number is only a number. don't listen to the negativity. put yourself in the top percentage of life and skills and you'll find a path.

i don't listen to any of the quotas, military/no-military stuff. just work hard, get your time, be nice, and fly a safe plane. that is all an airline wants.

the people with those qualities will be called. sometimes later than sooner, but eventually the call will come. it takes work, but it happens regularly.

that's my 2 cents worth anyway.

 

[Lear70]

we are losing more than 10% a year to major airlines. it's happening. most of my friends have recently interviewed with major carriers. regular guys, no military.

Ummmm.... 10% of WHAT? 300 pilots? 3,000 pilots?

I find that claim interesting, as the only "Majors" who are hiring that I'm aware of are Southwest, UPS, FedEx, and CAL and their TOTAL uptake per year is only about 1,000 pilots... from the TENS of THOUSANDS who apply.

10% sounds a little high. Maybe if you include AirTran, jetBlue, Netjets, and the few other Nationals and corporate gigs that pick a few up here and there.

Other than that, I agree with you. Don't give up your dream, just be realistic about it.

 

[Frap]

Lear70,

How do you pass the Southwest interview but not pass the review board? And how is it you know you passed the interview? I always thought that the board's yes or no decision determined if you passed the interview.

Not being incredulous with these questions here--I got the letter back in September and I have no idea (like the rest of us) about the hows or whys.

 

[Lear70]

I have a friend who went by the PD and asked around. About 2 or 3 days after the interview, they called ALL my references, everything looked to be fine, then I got the nasty gram a few weeks after the board met.

If you don't get a thumbs-up from your interviewers, they won't even do your reference check, you're pretty much done at that point. If your interviewers say yes, they proceed to the background check, call references, etc., or at least that's the way they USUALLY do things like 99% of the time according to the information I've received.

My buddy said that he was told that "he did fine on the interviews but something came up during his background check where he didn't pass the DB" and they wouldn't say anything more.

I can't imagine why, all my references are the same ones that got me my job here, although Pinnacle has a "do not rehire" policy for EVERYONE that is currently or previously employed here (I actually have a copy of the HR memo). I have no skeletons, DUI's, even traffic tickets.

I don't know what it was, but I know the interview part was successful.

 

[Bobby Orr 4]

No, there's no poop involved. It's the stuff like your post that I need to hear to make an informed decision. Thanks.

I have no idea which regionals are hiring, or interviewing at the job fair. A couple of thoughts.
I know Eagle is hiring pilots. Problem with Eagle is a 7 year time to upgrade. PIC turbine is very, very important if your goal is a legacy, SWA, Fedex, UPS, etc. Upgrade times always change. Today it is 7 years at Eagle, in 2 years it could change (better or worse).
If you are young go out a get hired at a regional that works for you. After the completion of IOE do everything you can do to find an Air National Guard position. The combination of these will make you very competitive when your time reaches competitive levels. Good luck.

 

[bptham]

You guys rock. I'm getting a damn tear in my eye. You know, you are right, for better or worse, I'm sticking with my dream. It will suck for a while but most things in life do from time to time. Now, who's going to let me crash at their place when I get hired?!? Seriously, thanks guys. It's tough to get good mentoring these days.