Jetblu E-190

[poydras]

Did the company already blocked the orders??
If they did, how long before upgrade for a brand new fo??

Just curious.

 

[Truckdriver]

Not sure what you mean by block the orders, but they have 94 firm orders to be delivered through 2011 with options for another 100 to be delivered through 2016. I beleive upgrade times now are about 14 months. In Oct 07 there is a fence that comes down allowing all 320 FO's with at least 2 years on the 320 to bid 190 CA. This could change the upgrade times on the 190 significantly depending on how many 320 FO's go to the 190. With 320 upgrade times climbing, I would bet that it will be common to see 320 FO's going over to the 190 as CA after their 2 years is up. What all that means is nobody really knows until the fence comes down and we see how many 320 FO's bid over to the 190. If lots do it, then 190 upgrade times will be around 2 years. If not many go over, then they will stay between 14-18 months. Upgrade times never stay the same. So if they are upgrading at 14 months now and you get hired today, I can guarantee you that in 14 months the upgrade times will have changed.

 

[Longhorn]

We DID NOT block or delay orders of the E190's. We are still in full hiring mode for the 190's and as far as I know are not planning on slowing down the 190's at all. They are money makers for us. The 320 did slow down to the new deliverys of 7 next year but no change on the 190's....sorry but you got bad info. We did have upper mgnt go to brazil to complain about some of the mx issues and quality control issues we are having but it seems they are working those problems out as we speak.

 

[Blue Dude]

Correction: still getting 12 A320's next year. The original order was for 17 and we deferred 5.

 

[poydras]

That is good then.Tx guys. just got some erroneous info.
All the best for Jetblu.

Poydras

 

[lowecur]

Correction: still getting 12 A320's next year. The original order was for 17 and we deferred 5.

That was before the latest security issue. Look for B6 to sell another 5 older 320s next year, and possibly the year after. Martin St. George loved the flexibility of the 319 at UAL, and I will look for an announcement next year to substitute it for a few 320s.



imp:

 

[curtaindriver]

That was before the latest security issue. Look for B6 to sell another 5 older 320s next year, and possibly the year after. Martin St. George loved the flexibility of the 319 at UAL, and I will look for an announcement next year to substitute it for a few 320s.



imp:

Using your logic, we will sell all of our aircraft in the future. Because these security threats will never end. And I anxiously await the 319 announcement. I am honestly awaiting how well the winglets perform on the 320, this could help with the transcon issue, the very little transcon issue.

CD

​

 

[GuppyPuppy]

We DID NOT block or delay orders of the E190's. We are still in full hiring mode for the 190's and as far as I know are not planning on slowing down the 190's at all. They are money makers for us. The 320 did slow down to the new deliverys of 7 next year but no change on the 190's....sorry but you got bad info. We did have upper mgnt go to brazil to complain about some of the mx issues and quality control issues we are having but it seems they are working those problems out as we speak.

Not according to D3. He says that they are still operating on a negative margin.

My response was that we don't utilize the airplane enough. He agreed and said that it should be getting more utilization in the future.

GP

 

[RideandDrive]

A friend who works for one of the big GDS companies told me good info from revenue management is the 190 is running at a 4% negative profit margin. One factor could be that Jetblue runs almost 4 spares a day on a fleet of 20 to ensure operational integrity.

As far as reliability goes we just had our first engine failure enroute on the 190.

 

[rayford steele]

That was before the latest security issue. Look for B6 to sell another 5 older 320s next year, and possibly the year after. Martin St. George loved the flexibility of the 319 at UAL, and I will look for an announcement next year to substitute it for a few 320s.



imp:

I hope you're right the 319 is the best one of the Fifi family.

 

[curtaindriver]

It is a correct statement that the 190 is in fact not making money right now. But, it has nothing to do with how we currently operate the fleet. The fleet size, and it being a new aircraft is why it doesn't make money, yet. This was all planned. It has been stated by Dave N. that the 190 should be a "break-even" aircraft by next summer, and profitable soon after. This is also considered a quick timeline and ahead of schedule. When JetBlue or other airlines bring on a new aircraft type it has to absorb the cost within its structure. This is easier with larger airlines, obviously. This cost was planned, and I believe warranted in order for the 190 to really start producing the revenue it is projected to achieve. But, we will have to start flying the 190 more efficiently to really reap the rewards. Time will tell.

CD

 

[RideandDrive]

Good to hear about the break even soon for the 190. I'm sure livable wages are just around the corner.

 

[poydras]

again, best to you all.
Poydras

 

[Longhorn]

Guppypuppy and Blue Dude, thanks for the correction. I thought we were at 7 next year...so my bad, and I was under the impression the 190's, with the exception of the original cost of getting the program up and running were making money now for us...once again, thanks for the correction.

lh

 

[Kayman]

E190 $'s

Couple things to consider:

Statement that E190's are profitable is not true at this time.

Based on the continued execution of the launch plan, it will be very profitable when it's route structure is fully implemented. (more profitable than the 320)

The CASM, RASM projections are incredibly favorable for this aircraft. Notice how other carriers are scrambling to bring it on line.

Unfortunately B6, as the launch customer, has to endure the initial added expense of partnering with Embraer to work weaknesses out of many of the new systems.

Once Mx issues are addressed, Route structure is developed, and full productivity is realized, the airplane will be profitable even considering higher pay for it's crewmembers.

 

[B6 Tech]

A friend who works for one of the big GDS companies told me good info from revenue management is the 190 is running at a 4% negative profit margin. One factor could be that Jetblue runs almost 4 spares a day on a fleet of 20 to ensure operational integrity.

As far as reliability goes we just had our first engine failure enroute on the 190.

Sheared fuel EDP shaft. Copa has had one too. EMB suspects a bad batch of pumps. You can bet the guys in Kennedy and BOS have already gone through the rest of the fleet checking serial #'s and changing pumps as required. I'd bet an official E.O. will come out of Forest Hills by the end of the week, if it isn't out already.

 

[Ex737Driver]

the airplane will be profitable even considering higher pay for it's crewmembers.

What higher pay?

 

[zkmayo]

Strong rumor of new rates Jan 1.

Ive read that all the 190s have been inspected and one or two others had precautionary fuel pump changes.

Dont plan on a 319 showing up at B6. Different engines, little commonality parts-wise with the 320. The lack of seats therefore revenue vs. similar fuel burn vs. # very small % of tech stops on transcons year round make the 319 very unlikely.

 

[lowecur]

Strong rumor of new rates Jan 1.

Ive read that all the 190s have been inspected and one or two others had precautionary fuel pump changes.

Dont plan on a 319 showing up at B6. Different engines, little commonality parts-wise with the 320. The lack of seats therefore revenue vs. similar fuel burn vs. # very small % of tech stops on transcons year round make the 319 very unlikely.

All valid pts, but LUV has many of the same problems with the 737 and it hasn't hurt them. F9 also seems to do quite well with 45 319s, and will add 10 320s in the next few years. There is too much of a descrepancy between 100 and 156 seats. Jetblue needs something in the middle to pick up the those markets that need more than a 190 and less than a 320. In addition, if Virgin America ever gets airborne, their premium business class product with probably 100-120 seats will put add'l pressure on Jetblue's transcon marketshare. UAL already has this type of service with the 757, and St. George is very familiar with the add'l revenue it can generate. Look for Jetblue to add either a proprietary FC/B/C a/c, or a premium service class on existing transcons to match Virgin America. They are trying to match the ambiance and service of a private jet for those that can afford it.

imp:

 

[curtaindriver]

All valid pts, but LUV has many of the same problems with the 737 and it hasn't hurt them. F9 also seems to do quite well with 45 319s, and will add 10 320s in the next few years. There is too much of a descrepancy between 100 and 156 seats. Jetblue needs something in the middle to pick up the those markets that need more than a 190 and less than a 320. In addition, if Virgin America ever gets airborne, their premium business class product with probably 100-120 seats will put add'l pressure on Jetblue's transcon marketshare. UAL already has this type of service with the 757, and St. George is very familiar with the add'l revenue it can generate. Look for Jetblue to add either a proprietary FC/B/C a/c, or a premium service class on existing transcons to match Virgin America. They are trying to match the ambiance and service of a private jet for those that can afford it.

imp:

Lowecur, look at how many times David N. has said this quote....."No first class, no second class citizens"
SWA didn't have an option of airplanes like we do right now, meaning they might have done something different regarding smaller aircraft in the past. and F9, I'm sorry, but using them as something for us to measure against is ridiculous....they also have regional jets, are buying turboprops to fly under a subsidiary and have only one hub. They are not comparable to Jetblue. And, that is not a slam to F9....it's a whole different animal.

CD

 

[Ex737Driver]

Who negoiates this? Will management simply decide one day that the crewmembers need more pay? I sincerely doubt that management would raise pay scales outside of the current scale just beacuse the pilot group wanted it or expected it.

 

[elag777]

Who negoiates this? Will management simply decide one day that the crewmembers need more pay? I sincerely doubt that management would raise pay scales outside of the current scale just beacuse the pilot group wanted it or expected it.

Pay on the 190 will be improved and you sir will have to eat your words....with all due respect

 

[Dizel8]

In addition, if Virgin America ever gets airborne, their premium business class product
imp:

Is Virgin having business class, hmmm?

 

[Nado]

EX73-

I think it is the same negotiation team that negotiated the pay from around 85$ in 1999 to the current $115 or so for captains.

'They' did a good job then, I hope 'they' return to help us get a raise now.

Not sure if you new that little fact about JB, mangagement just gave a raise (OK there were other factors at play), but there were no negotiation teams or LOA's or TA's or other alphabet soup lawyer/union speak involved. In fact, one pay raise was scheduled right around 9/11/01 and was held off until the situation cleared up, then went into effect retroactively.

 

[lowecur]

Is Virgin having business class, hmmm?

This is an interesting article that gives you a look at the Virgin America product. It will be modeled after the Premium Service/Premium Plus that UAL offers on select coast to coast flts on the 757(I think 120 seats). The difference will be the latest seat(Recaro) and IFE technology(Panasonic). You will notice they plan on buying the 319 in addition to the 320.

This will be a formidable competitor to Jetblue, especially with the addition of Business/First Class cabins. I think this was one reason you saw Martin St. George brought in from UAL. I would be surprised if Jetblue doesn't offer a similar product in the coming future, as they really value their transcon program.

imp:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2006/03/19/BUG6VHOI6R1.DTL&type=business

 

[a320drivr]

To who ever said the 320 and 319 engines are different. WRONG!!!!! You can get the 319 the the IAE V2500 motor.

 

[Dizel8]

This is an interesting article that gives you a look at the Virgin America product. It will be modeled after the Premium Service/Premium Plus that UAL offers on select coast to coast flts on the 757(I think 120 seats). http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/artic...hive/2006/03/19/BUG6VHOI6R1.DTL&type=business

Your article said:


Q: How much legroom?
A: Thirty-two or more inches.

Well, 32 inches is about standard economy seating, perhaps even a bit low!

 

[lowecur]

Your article said:


Q: How much legroom?
A: Thirty-two or more inches.

Well, 32 inches is about standard economy seating, perhaps even a bit low!

Don't expect them to give out too much detail about cabin layout. I would bet they will be at least 36" due to the 1 1/2" thickness of the technically advanced Recaro seat. They will probably have a limited coach section of maybe 75 seats, with the remaining seats configured in business class and first class (probably 120 total). Recaro supplies seats for Porsche as well as the airline industry throughout Europe.

imp:

 

[B6 Tech]

To who ever said the 320 and 319 engines are different. WRONG!!!!! You can get the 319 the the IAE V2500 motor.

The only real difference between the V2500 series engines is software. Thats it. Although the 319, 320, and 321 run different IAE variants, software is what sets them apart. Everything else remains the same. And aside from the internal magic smoke inside the SEC's, ELAC's, and FAC's ( then again, if the part numbers match, well then they are ths same also ) which are nothing more than "rackable" boxes, or LRU's, the 320 is a 319 with fuselage plugs. EIS 1 or 2 also wouldn't make a difference, we run them both. Although I do agree, we will not be getting any 319's. The tech stop issue is trying to be resolved with winglets. 2 planes, 2 winglet variants, and the most efficent set will be installed on future acft, with existing acft to be retro fitted in heavy ck. 636 is flying in france now with a "737NG" style. The 2nd set is supposed to look more A330. Who knows. Predicted savings floating anywhere from 3 to 7% on the transcons. Guess time will tell.

 

[GogglesPisano]

Who negoiates this? Will management simply decide one day that the crewmembers need more pay? I sincerely doubt that management would raise pay scales outside of the current scale just beacuse the pilot group wanted it or expected it.

Why don't you just worry about fixing that first year pay where you work.