Jet FO or prop Capt??

[millertime]

That's the question. Let's say that on the same day, you were offered upgrade in a TP in your company (that you've paid your dues at for 2ysr) and finally get a class date for upgrade training and also get a notice that you've been offered a position with an extremely respectable regional airline as a jet FO. (And there's a pool about approx 50 deep.) You're young with lots of airline flying years ahead of you. Realize that you've probabaly got another 2yrs+ if you take the jet job to upgrade....but should that really matter anyways? Tough choice??

 

[vclean]

No. PIC time opens more doors than SIC time. Those 2 years may eventually cost you 2 years seniority at your career airline.

 

[j41driver]

Those 2 years may eventually cost you 2 years seniority at your career airline.

I'd agree. Start logging 121 PIC as soon as you can. It will help much more than jet SIC when things turn around.

 

[English]

Take the turbine PIC, no question about it. Doesn't matter if the PIC time is part 91, 135 or 121. Once you have the PIC turbine time, you'll be much more marketable. 121 SIC turbine time is better than nothing, but still not that useful.

 

[millertime]

well, if PIC time is more marketable, then why are there capts in my company who've been here for 4yrs+ who can't move on?? It's not that they don't want to move on. All they do is complain about everything.... I don't want to be in that boat....that's why I'm really thinking hard about whether or not to jump ship.

 

[Mookie]

If you're with the place i think you are...then it is a tough one.

i had the same dillemma last year, and I took the jet fo spot. for one reason, you're going to be on reserve for a while as a captain, and unless you live in base, commuting to reserve sucks! if you are senior enough on the RJ to hold a line, at my company, you'll make more money than a reserve cpt. with probably four to seven days off more per month, that and no eight leg days! I checked with a bud last week. Alsod, i'm glad i flew the rj before I upgrade (someday!), as the transition will be much easier. Yes i would have liked to have gotten the pic time this last year, but the most that anyone has gotten from the class i could have been in is about 200-300hrs. in that time, i've made more money, had a much better quality of life, and when my seatlock is up, i'll more than likely be able to upgrade back to the tp or wait for the rj, and make up that pic time sooner since i'll be holding a line. just a thought...

mookie

 

[jegermeister]

Your Capt's are stuck now for the same reason many of us are....the market is flooded with folks with shuttle landings. 3-5 years you'll be sitting prettty with the PIC time and you will have made more.

 

[vclean]

Those 4+ year Capts. have not developed contacts in the industry. PIC is the ticket out, networking opens the other door.

 

[j41driver]

well, if PIC time is more marketable, then why are there capts in my company who've been here for 4yrs+ who can't move on?? It's not that they don't want to move on. All they do is complain about everything.... I don't want to be in that boat....that's why I'm really thinking hard about whether or not to jump ship.

Sounds like you have your mind made up already. Good luck in whatever decision you make.

 

[Lear70]

Ummm, have you LOOKED at the economy and who's hiring these days? With the guys who ARE getting hired into jetBlue and ATA, have you seen their hours? Right now unless you know AT LEAST two or three people for references at a national or major, you're not going anywhere unless you're holding some SERIOUS flight time (5,000+ total and several thousand PIC jet). Your PIC coworkers are probably just discouraged and frustrated because they KNOW they're probably stuck at a regional FAR longer than they originally thought would happen...

In another 5 years, once you've logged 1,500 or so PIC turboprop, then another 2,000 or so PIC jet and the majors have recalled everyone and think about hiring again, your PIC times will look better than someone who stayed in the right seat an extra 2 years.

I know the jet looks nice and shiny, but this has been time-proven again and again in the last two decades: PIC time is the trump card for interview selection. When every single one of your more experienced peers on here is telling you something, why would you ignore it?

 

[Caveman]

Can't say as I disagree much with what the others have posted. But......

Since hardly anybody above the regional level is hiring now or for the forseeable future consider this:

1. 2nd year jet FO pay at an "extremely respectable regional" is probably real close to TP Capt pay at a small commuter.

2. If upgrade to jet Capt at the new place is doable within say 3 years or so then at the end of 5 years from today you would have made considerably more flying the jet and you would have 1000+ jet PIC time. I don't think you'll see any significant change in hiring trends until then and IMHO jet PIC time is more valuable than TP PIC time. The hiring market is just too dang fierce. You need to have every edge over the other applicant. Take JB for example. They are looking for time in a/c larger than 20,000 lbs. That usually means CRJ/ERJ or bigger. There are TP that meet that requirement but read between the lines. They are looking for transport type jet a/c, not 1900s, Saabs or King Airs. Again, that's just my opinion and I mean no negative inference to TP pilots.

3. What if the industry gets get worse than it is? Where would you be better off long term? I'm betting that the "extremely respectable regional" is a better place to hang your hat for the next 10 years than the temporary short term benefit of logging TP PIC Time. You'll get your PIC time soon enough.

Congrats on having choices and good luck to you.

 

[vclean]

One other small item to consider. Some employers will look at your resume and may ask about your choice in changing companies. Those employers may value loyalty, and evaluate whether you may jump ship for the next opportunity.

Whatever you choose, prepare to defend your decision in an interview.

 

[Homer Jay]

It all depends on what you are looking for in the long run. My scenario was much the same except I had already upgraded. I was working at one of the worst airlines known to man... 10 days off, no rigs, no cancellation pay, an unbelievable amount of junior manning, paid historical block, crap per diem, and here's the topper...I was making less than $30/hr as a captain on the 4 year scale! To sum it up, I was hating life!!! I left that place with only 750 Turbine PIC and went to a "career regional". I currently make the same amount of money on a monthly basis on first year FO pay as I did as a captain at my previous airline... Why? The rigs, per diem, cheap health insurance, ect. Even though I'm on reserve, I still have a great QOL. I live in base and get to spend a lot of time with my wife. I know there will be those that say I should have waited till I had a 1000 PIC, but if I had, who knows, maybe I'd be stuck there for a LONG time wishing I had left when I had the chance. Besides, If I so desire, I can retire here making a comfortable living. I may not ever get to fly the heavy metal or make $300/hour, but for me QOL is more important, and I am very happy with the choice I made. I wish you the best of luck in making your decision... I know it can be tough...

Homer

 

[g159av8tor]

Millertime,

Basically, take whatever course of action that will allow you to attain your life and career goals. They're not the same for everybody and they seem to change all the time.

Tailwinds...

 

[millertime]

Thanks caveman, this might be a career airline....but at least a good place to hang my hat for the next 5-10 years. Would I be crazy to decline an offer from Comair? or stick around getting BS'd by my lowly commutter which offers NO QOL just to log PIC turbine? Better paycheck and QOL or PIC time?

Thanks for all those who have given me insight!

 

[OldManPilot]

remember, many of those on here are already working for 121 airlines. What you need to think about is that there is no promise that you will ever have another offer from an airline either regional, or major airline.
Some seem to forget that just because they are working for a 121 carrier a "Major Airline" job is not guarenteed.

If you want to fly for a Regional airline, you need to seriously consider this job offer. Job offers do not come along every day.

 

[j41driver]

Take JB for example. They are looking for time in a/c larger than 20,000 lbs. That usually means CRJ/ERJ or bigger. There are TP that meet that requirement but read between the lines.

I don't really see any lines to read between. If they wanted, as you put it, "transport type jet a/c" time then they would require time in those type a/c or at least in aircraft greater than 100,000lb. But they don't...they say 20,000lb.

There are actually many turboprops that meet or exceed 20,000lb.....for example: Saab 340 & 2000, Dornier 328, Dash 8, ATR 42 & 72, J41, G-I, Brasilia.....how many examples of all of these aircraft are flying in the US?

I'm sure there are a ton more (I didnt' even consider military planes) but you get the idea.

 

[Freight Dog]

Out of curiosity... what do you guys think is more valuable - FO time in a B737 or DHC-8 captain time?

I left with only about 250 hours of turbine PIC time (DHC-8) for this job. Some are saying I'm crazy for punching out before hitting 1000 turbine PIC, but this is a career airline with awesome retirement and industry-standard 737 pay. But one can't tell the future.... if the airline closes its doors for whatever reason or we get bought and TWA'd.. you get the point.

I realize I won't know if I made the right decision until I hit 60, but what do yas think? I don't intend to go anywhere, but I still log time regularly and religiously since you never know in this industry given 15+ year seniority pilots furloughed at USAir.

 

[Thedude]

Go for the jet time. Take my word for it on this one. Jet time is more valuable than t'prop time. I dunno why, but employers like to see that one

 

[inthepool]

Move on so I can have your lowly commuter job! Just kidding, good luck!