Jet blues scope clause

[i fly boxes]

Is it pretty good? Does it prevent them from offering out regional flying one day? What is the deal with luthansa about with their code share?
Thanks

 

[B6Busdriver]

Is it pretty good? Does it prevent them from offering out regional flying one day? What is the deal with luthansa about with their code share?
Thanks

Scope is a hot issue right now. However, there are no scope protections whatsoever for Bluejet pilots.

 

[BeachBummer]

Is it pretty good? Does it prevent them from offering out regional flying one day? What is the deal with luthansa about with their code share?
Thanks

This is our scope!

oh wait no, we have "cultural" scope. But you can't see it!

 

[A350]

The ALPA guys are quick to point out we don't have any legal binding scope....and they are correct. The company can farm out all the flying they wish.

However, they have shown no propensity to do so....even though our E190 pilots make more than a lot of A320 CA's at other airlines. The last bit of someone else flying our routes was when ExpressJet came in and subbed for our 190 fleet when it was going through the mod line in BNA. They paid all the pilots who were displaced by the flying and management fully admitted it isn't the product we want to have in the marketplace. Noone but JetBlue pilots have ever flown one of our airplanes in revenue service.

Certain groups like to make you afraid of something....when there is no real threat. ALPA can work great in up times....witness the UAL contract of 2000. But their record when things are bad is very weak. No contract cannot be broken. Therefore the guarantee you wish is a phantom of your imagination.

A350

 

[GuppyWN]

Until you have protection in your contract you don't have ********************. Doesn't matter what management will/won't do because they are swell fellas.

Gup

 

[Lake Alice]

With all due respect A350 in this industry you must prepare for what could be. Leadership at Jetblue is doing things today they said they would never do 5 or even 10 years ago. The bottom line has become more important at Jetblue than anything else especially the touted culture. So if it makes financial sense, which regional flying does, it is on the table. Maruster has already been quoted as saying the 190, our regional, has to remain competitive in the markets it flies against the aircraft it competes. The 10% difference between seats is something they are not pleased about.
We don't have the best and brightest at the helm and at times it shows.

 

[Caveman]

No contract cannot be broken. Therefore the guarantee you wish is a phantom of your imagination.

A350

That applies equally to our PEAs. The big difference is a CBA will be defended in court by a staff of lawyers provided by ALPA. If they violate your PEA you will have to hire an attorney to seek redress. Can you afford to hire a team of lawyers to represent you in court? I can't.

If you have any doubt as to how JetBlue will react I urge you to look at how the 3A process has been handled. That's who you work for. That's the reality. Despite JTTPs to the contrary they will react in a very mercenary way if you have the audacity to demand they honor a written agreement.

Given that, how do you think they'll proceed if circumstances dictate it's in JetBlue's best financial interests to outsource flying? They're already fighting tooth and nail to get out of a contractually written agreement. If they need to outsource they'll have no reservations about breaking a verbal promise.

 

[Splert]

The ALPA guys are quick to point out we don't have any legal binding scope....and they are correct. The company can farm out all the flying they wish.

Scope is not only about current flying but it has more to do with our code.

Placing our code on other airlines is a very quick way to expand the footprint of JetBlue. It drives revenue without long-term debt. That is good for the Jetblue but bad for the bottom 90% of the pilot list.

Domestically this would be terrible for the JetBlue pilot group.

We bought Sabre for a reason and the reason. I hope it is for code sharing (two way code) but looking at other pilots collective bargaining agreement it looks more like one-code, which again would be terrible for JetBlue pilots.

 

[A350]

The same group of lawyers who helped give away my retirement, my scope, and my job to another union pilot?

No thanks.

What contract are they trying to get out of? The 3A deal? I've read it 20 times and can't make the leap you guys are that you are due a raise. Good on you for trying....but in the end it was written to prevent a reverse B scale.

A350

 

[Splert]

Your flew a CL65 corporate?

 

[Hair-on-Fire]

Despite JTTPs to the contrary they will react in a very mercenary way if you have the audacity to demand they honor a written agreement.

In reality it's just vague language you guys are trying to exploit because you see dollar signs dancing in your eyes. Embarrassing.

 

[i fly boxes]

So lets just say one of these "regionals" comes in trying to buy jet blue - then they start farming out the flying to their own regional jets. you guys are saying this could happen? Im not predicting this or saying i want this to happen but after i found out that republic bought frontier and midwest, anything is possible.

 

[airjackson]

So lets just say one of these "regionals" comes in trying to buy jet blue - then they start farming out the flying to their own regional jets. you guys are saying this could happen? Im not predicting this or saying i want this to happen but after i found out that republic bought frontier and midwest, anything is possible.

Frontier and Midwest were both in bankruptcy I believe when Republic bought them. JB is nowhere close to being in that position.

 

[DonVersteed]

So lets just say one of these "regionals" comes in trying to buy jet blue - then they start farming out the flying to their own regional jets. you guys are saying this could happen? Im not predicting this or saying i want this to happen but after i found out that republic bought frontier and midwest, anything is possible.

Jetblue's market cap is 1.95B as of 12/22/10. Republic is 255m...... Skywest is 902m..... Look, you guys who spread this Republic is going to buy everybody, kinda stuff are way out there. Jetblue has 161 airplanes and a pretty weak route network. The market cap is high because of thier percieved flexibility and percieved good management. Doesn't matter if we like it or not, no one would try to acquire Jetblue because they don't get much. JFK and BOS........maybe. You're paying a premium for something that materially is'nt worth much. Oh and by the way, AMR is only worth 2.65B. A company that size would be foolish to try and acquire Jetblue. Mergers are completely different stories and anything can really happen. An all out acquisition shouldn't happen.. Just to give you an idea of the size difference on the market, the only 2 airlines that are worth enough to do something like this would be SWA at 9.78B and DAL at 9.81B and the combined UAL/CAL. Even then I believe they wouldn't pay close to 5B dollars for Jetblue (using the multiple SWA is paying for Airtran.

 

[B6Busdriver]

The same group of lawyers who helped give away my retirement, my scope, and my job to another union pilot?

No thanks.


A350

As a former Airways guy myself I can empathize with you to some extent. Why is it so hard to see if your employer is in an extremely perilous financial position (read bankrupt) life on the other side will be unpleasant?Can you answer me this, what did you expect when your employer went bankrupt twice in three years and was about to go bankrupt for the final time? Did you not think there would be no concessions? At this point I don't care wether you vote yes or no but at least be honest with yourself.