Is this Pay for Training?

[DCitrus9]

Fixn says:
"You don't stay at Gulfsteam. It's not a commuter job. It's a training school to build some multi-time and MOVE ON. No major cares that you PFT'd. They probably would care if you were a scab, like Cooper"
That's where you choose to completely ignore the facts. It IS a job. That is why it's the employer's responsibility to train the pilots. They are carrying paying passengers, whose monies should be adequate to finance the operation. You are a pilot, a worker, an employee who receives compensation. It's not your duty or responsiblity to finance their operation. By PFT you are buying your seat and are no longer a pilot, but now a paying passenger who pretends to be a pilot and gets to sit up front.
By refusing to PFT it requires the employer to operate a real airline and provide jobs to qualified pilots (qualified by the FAA and the airlines standards, they can hire whomever they please.)
I know several ex GSA pilots who did PFT. Nice people, good pilots, and they now realize how they hurt the industry.

 

[Birddog]

I too, am curious as to why Fixn2Land is so adament about the subject. I wonder if the company in debate was one other than Gulfstream how the debate would be different. Let's say that Delta required you to put up $(fill in the blank with a figure) to cover "training costs" in order to get hired. You just spent the last 3-7 years running around in a 1900, Saab, Brasilia, ATR, or whatever. Would PFT have so many defenders then? How about the other end of the spectrum. You have just finished your CFI and the FBOs want you to pay them $xx/hour to instruct there. PFT would be more accurately described as pay for work. It is a by product of the lowest bidder mentality. For all the things Mr. Cooper may be, he is not dumb. He knows that there are unscrupulous folks out there who would sell thier grandmother's dentures to fly something that burns Jet-A.

What is your game Fixin? Why do you care? I have noticed that you have switched from debating the topic to attacking the posters. It is a classic, but transparent tactic. When you can't attack the evidence, attack the witness. If PFT, as you claim, does not hurt the industry, then it must be beneficial. Show me how that is true. What improvements have companies such as Gulfstream brought us?

 

[boscenter]

Well said Birddog...

 

[bobbysamd]

Job

Good posts above. Good logic on the Delta example and explanation about how Gulfstream is a job.

Define "job." To me, a job is if I receive compensation from an entity in return for labor or services I perform for that entity, with me requiring to pay income taxes on that compensation.

No, Mr. Cooper isn't dumb at all. He and other P-F-T promoters are predators. He preys on people who are impatient, desperate and, perhaps, guillable. What I find ironic is how Fixin defends Gulfstream and turns around and calls Mr. Cooper a scab.

This all sounds like flamebait to me.

 

[TDTURBO]

I said it before and I'll say it again........All I know, if I did this, (flying), for a living, I would be pissed!

I would definitely go out of my way to find and expose those pilots that PFT'ed. I paid my dues as a resident and intern to become a physician and I sure wouldn't like it very much if some rich puke bought his way into the O.R., got his/her quota and started private practice ahead of everyone else.

If others in your profession tolerate this type of advancement without serious protest i.e.; Bluto, I venture to say that you've lost the battle! There must be an ambitious one among you. Get REorganized, hell, this is the information age! Start an organization that addresses this very issue; there is strength in numbers.

The key to your success lies in your ability to convey these concerns to paying passengers. Hurt 'em were it counts, in their bottom line. I know people in general have an "uneasiness" when it comes to flying anyway, it probably wouldn't take much to make them "more" uneasy by informing them that the guy in the right seat, the guy actually flying the plane, is paying to be there and is in fact, a student, because if he wasn't, he/she/it would be compensated accordingly. All I can say is THANK GOD I don't have to kiss a s s to fly, because if I did, I would rather walk!


P.S. You got to make a stand! All you guys need to stick together. Make life miserable for those that buy your jobs. Take no prisoners either, cut the head off the snake now while you still can. Deter future pilots from doing this by making it miserable for the ones that have, and make darn sure the ones that are thinking about PFT know the consequences. If there are no consequences, make some!