Is it Part 91 or 135??

[airnik]

Listed under Part 119 for Air Carriers and Commercial Operators is an exception (i.e. "this part does not apply to - ) listed in 119.1 Applicability, and lists numerous things a commercial pilot can do with his or her certificate and not be considered to be operating under Parts 135 or 121. If I understand this correctly, I can do aerial photography or survey (119.1 (e)(4)(iii)).

There is no mention that this aerial photography flight has to remain within 25 NM - like the non-stop sightseeing flights later mentioned in the same section. However, many people have told me that if I take a photo flight outside 25 NM it is considered to be a 135 Air Taxi operation because they are paying me to do so in my company's airplane - a 172. This 172 also happens to be on our 135 operating certificate primarily for this purpose.

So, is this a 135 operation, or is it considered to be 91?? Just wanted some opinions before I ask the feds.

 

[Flymach2]

Hi...

Aerial photography can be done under part 91 without mileage restrictions.

...and it's Statute miles, not Nautical miles.

Regards

 

[airnik]

Why then, would our C-172 be under our Part 135 certificate?? How many people does anyone know that would prefer a C-172 over a Bonanza?

I have yet to find an example that suits me just yet. One of our mechanics who is an experienced mechanic on our field asked a fed and he cited that it was under part 135 since they (the customer) is paying for a) the airplane and b) me. And since I don't own the airplane and that this trip will most likely be more than 25 SM (sorry for the typo from before) then it is definately Part 135 .

I don't know. I'm new to the 135 world. I'm just trying to cover my nuts before I get into something hairy.

-Airnik

 

[Flymach2]

Hi...

It seems to me that your Company has the aircraft on the 135 certificate so that it may be used in Air Taxi Operations or Charter. Both of these are indicative of transporting persons for hire from point "A" to point "B".

Do you also give flight instruction in that airplane? I may be incorrect, but I will bet you,(or someone), does. Is that instructional flight considered Part 135 since the student is hiring you and the aircraft as well? Of course not....student instruction is one of the exempt conditions listed in Part 119.... just as is aerial photography. I will reiterate, there is no stipulation for an aerial photo flight to remain within 25 SM of the originating airport.

Once you start transporting persons or property from place to place for compensation or hire you will be operating 135 or 121, which I will assume you know.

Keep in mind that the only authority to interpret the Regulations is the Regional or Chief Counsel....not a Fed on the local field or even your local FSDO.

You're certainly doing the right thing, by the way, in researching the answer for yourself.

Incidentally, no need to apologize for spelling errors.....it happens.
I will, however, ask you to refrain from using "nuts" and "hairy" in the same sentence.

Regards

 

[cjh]

But don't land anywhere else!

Just be certain you DON'T LAND ANYWHERE other than the original departure point. If you land for any reason you have become a part 135 operator. That might be part of the reason the aircraft in question is under Part 135, it just eliminates any potential problems. Here's an excerpt from an opinion from the FAA's legal dept on the subject.

"The Agency has consistently interpreted Part 135.1(b) so that if an aircraft lands at a site other than its origin, the "aerial photography" exception does not apply. This is due to the fact that the flight takes on the "dual purpose" of both aerial photography and transporting passengers from one point to another for compensation or hire. However, if the aircraft returns to the point of departure without landing at another location, then the "aerial photography" exception would apply. Thus, if an operator takes off on an "aerial photography" flight under the rules of Part 91, that person must be deemed to recognize that no landing other than at the origin point is permitted and should so inform his or her passengers before taking off. If the passengers indicate that they might ask for a landing, then the rules of Part 135 must be followed. If they do not so indicate and later change their minds, a prudent operator should decline the request on the grounds that he or she could be subjected to an Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) enforcement action. Indeed, a prudent operator should inquire before the flight to determine what is contemplated by the passengers. Having so inquired, the operator will have the facts required to conduct the flight under the correct rules.


The determining factor is whether the aircraft lands at a location other than the point of origin since the landing usually changes the nature of the operation from one of aerial photography to transportation of passengers and/or property for compensation or hire. In deciding what rules must be complied with, each flight, from take off to landing, is considered separately."

 

[sanford&son]

easy solution

quit dicking around and hire a pro to take your shots. let them worry about what kind of operation they have/need. there are plenty of survey and engineering firms who have aircraft equipped to do ANY type of photography your clients need.

 

[airnik]

Re: easy solution

quit dicking around and hire a pro to take your shots. let them worry about what kind of operation they have/need. there are plenty of survey and engineering firms who have aircraft equipped to do ANY type of photography your clients need.

I'm not sure where you are located, sir, but where I am we are the only ones to do this sort of thing. Besides,what kind of "pro" were you refering to? You seem to have an answer that's full of logical holes of reasoning. Thanks for your input but no thanks.

If you're being sarcastic I apoligize - it's late and I have no time to debate people who think I am not a "pro". Otherwise, thanks for your input.

 

[sanford&son]

there are numerous operations nation-wide specializing in all types of aerial photography. that is what they do all day, every day, when mother nature allows. they don't carry ANY passengers, so if they stop for fuel 800 nm from home, it does not matter. they are equipped to shoot black and white, color, IR, or video from a 50' agl oblique to as high an altitude as necessary. if you live in the U.S., i AM sure that one of these operators covers your area. please take your "logical holes of reasoning," back to debate class.

-L

 

[cjh]

there are numerous operations nation-wide specializing in all types of aerial photography. that is what they do all day, every day, when mother nature allows. they don't carry ANY passengers, so if they stop for fuel 800 nm from home, it does not matter. they are equipped to shoot black and white, color, IR, or video from a 50' agl oblique to as high an altitude as necessary. if you live in the U.S., i AM sure that one of these operators covers your area. please take your "logical holes of reasoning," back to debate class.

-L

Gee, who pi##ed in your wheaties? Airnik asked a legitimate question about a privilege available to commercial pilots.