Insurance for a Cessna 210

[123mc]

My employer is wanting to purchase a 210 for some small cargo hauling. The cargo will be a few boxes that weigh around 700lbs altogether. I am wondering if insurance could even be acquired for me to fly it? I'm not sure if he is going to go with the NA or the Turbo model. I have around 170TT, and currently obtaining hours to get my commercial. My employer is wanting to purchase the plane and let me get my remaining hours in it to obtain my commercial certificate. I already have my instrument rating, but no complex or HP time. I'm thinking a 206 may be better for now, but not sure. I'm sure with a lot of duel, insurance would allow it. What do you think? Thanks

 

[JimG]

Call an insurance broker BEFORE you buy an airplane in order to make a better decision.

As far as the ratings...from my experience...the instrument is probably the #1 thing that an underwriter looks at, not your relatively low time.

You could have 2000 hours in type, but they'd feel more comfortable with your instrument rating.

BTW....a 206 is fun.

But a 210 is "funner".

 

[av8rbama]

Ditto on the "funner"

When we bought our 210, I had to have 25 hours dual in make & model and a commercial to appease the underwriters. I had just received my commercial (at 251 hours) and only had 10 hours complex when we got it. I did have a ton of high performance hours though, probably at least half my time was HP up until that point in 182 and 206.

I fly a 210 and 206 at work. I've also flown several trips for a guy in his 2000 206 and will take our 1974 210 anyday. Our 206 is like an old truck while the 210 is like a sportscar, a lot tighter and a good clip faster... My boss has done all sorts of cost comarisons between the two, and they come out at the same cost per mile to operate.

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

Insurance wont be a problem.
Now, lets make one thing perfectly clear, this is a Part91 box hauler?
I started flying a C210 at about 100TT, got my HP in it, and insurance only really required 10 in type to sign me off. Depends on all the liability youll want for the aircraft but for a part91 hauling boxes, you can get rid of alot of the crap to keep your insurance costs down. Now the more you fly it, the more insurance will go down. The 210 is my favorite single to date. Ive flown ever model from the NA C210, turbo 210, p210, and the turbine 210 its a beast. Its stable, hauls some weight, has a good range, speed, good altitude for a single. Im actually considering making the purchase.

and a little heads up from one centiorion driver to another, that landing gear system is a nightmare. I don't know if your company owns one already but if not insist that it have the gear mod. You loose a few kts but those gear doors suck. Also, those power packs for the gear, keep an eye on that damn thing, they like to smoke up your cockpit. One of the 210's I flew had the extra large gear handle. You put it in the up position and once the uplimit shutoff it reset it to the nuetral position. Well, solid ifr single pilot getting out of the Chicago Bravo can be fun, but a real workload, twice i missed that fact that it never reset to neutral and not only had a maintince issue, i had smoke in the cockpit and I didn't make it to my destination as scheduled. But all in all, i love the airplane. Fly safe.

Mark

 

[123mc]

Thanks for the replies guys

I appreciate all of you guys help! Yeah, this will be a Part 91 box hauler. How hard is it to load a 210 without having the cargo doors? That is the only limitation I'm seeing with the 210 compared to the 206. I'm not sure how big these boxes will be though. I'll see if I can find out. Thanks again

 

[ultrarunner]

I appreciate all of you guys help! Yeah, this will be a Part 91 box hauler. How hard is it to load a 210 without having the cargo doors? That is the only limitation I'm seeing with the 210 compared to the 206. I'm not sure how big these boxes will be though. I'll see if I can find out. Thanks again

I'm assuming you're removing all the seats except for the pilot seat right? And then installation of a cargo net?

If that's the case, Boxes should be quite easy to load in the right fwd door. And the largest box will be the one that can go in that opening, however the 210 tapers as you go aft, so smaller boxes first.

You're gonna have to secure those boxes though.

 

[Air 1]

Yeah, this will be a Part 91 box hauler.

Not to hijack the thread or anything, but what exactly is a Part 91 hauler? Is that sort of an 'on demand' type stuff without any certain requirements?

 

[yzf6]

How hard is it to load a 210 without having the cargo doors?

easy! with the seats out you can fit ATLEAST 11 big blue plastic coolers in there.

 

[NuGuy]

I appreciate all of you guys help! Yeah, this will be a Part 91 box hauler.

I would make absolutely sure of that. I'd make an appointement down at the local FSDO and run your proposed operation by them just to make sure.

The Feds have NO sense of humor about 134 1/2 type operations, and they'll bring the hammer down on anyone and everyone in their sights if they even slightly suspect anything, with plenty of emergency revocations, suspensions and civil penalties to go around.

Make sure!

Nu

 

[HawkerF/O]

If the company makes, manufactures and/or owns whatever is in the box or is delievering it to customers, the a part 91 box hauler makes sense.

 

[NuGuy]

If the company makes, manufactures and/or owns whatever is in the box or is delievering it to customers, the a part 91 box hauler makes sense.

Hawker,

True, but there can be no "value added" by delivery by air. It has to be the same cost to the customer as if you shipped via some other method. The air transport has to be incidental to the transport. If you charge extra for air delivery, the feds will probably have an issue with it.

If its simply transport between corporate locations, that will probably be ok depending on how it's costed out internally.

I was talking to a FSDO guy about another issues and this topic came up. If its one thing that really makes the feds see red and that's part 91 stuff that is really part 135. They just grab the shotgun and blast everyone and sort the pieces out later.

All I'm saying is its cheap to pick up the phone and talk to the FSDO and run it by them to make sure it passes the sniff check. The ticket you save might be your own.

Nu

 

[123mc]

Hawker,

True, but there can be no "value added" by delivery by air. It has to be the same cost to the customer as if you shipped via some other method. The air transport has to be incidental to the transport. If you charge extra for air delivery, the feds will probably have an issue with it.

If its simply transport between corporate locations, that will probably be ok depending on how it's costed out internally.

Nu

This is about the way its going to be. Nothing is actually going to customers, it is going to another location. Actually, it is parts for machines. If a machine breaks at one place, they want a quick way of getting it to the other location. What is a 2 hour flight is an 8 hour drive. Nothing is actually going to customers, only from one location to the other.

 

[123mc]

Let me give a little more details on what his plans are with this. My boss owns a company that runs parts back and forth between 2 manufacturing plants for the same company. Since this airplane will not be owned by that certain mfg company and will be owned by my boss, will this still qualify under part 91? There will be no other flights for any other companies, just this certain one. Its not scheduled or anything. I just thought I'd ask it here before I give my local FSDO a call. Thanks

 

[ultrarunner]

135 is defined by the transportaion of freight or people for compensation or hire. I don't suspect this is the case here, and you're simply using this plane as you would someone using a truck to run parts around.

 

[sky37d]

I just thought I'd ask it here before I give my local FSDO a call. Thanks

The fewer calls to the local FSDO, the better off you'll be.

:beer:

 

[123mc]

The fewer calls to the local FSDO, the better off you'll be.

:beer:

I was thinking along the same lines as you were.

 

[NuGuy]

The fewer calls to the local FSDO, the better off you'll be.

:beer:

I guess if I had 750 hours, didn't know anything and trying to do the same thing, I'd have the same attitude.

The FAA can have a pretty broad view on what constitutes "compensation or hire". For instance, one FSDO recently said that even the division of direct operating costs among passengers was not an equitable division because the private pilot that was PIC was building time. In their view, he was receiving compensation in the form of building time.

The NTSB Administrative Law journals are repleat with guys trying to short the process and getting really, really burned in the process. The "compensation or hire" thing is always on the mind of the FAA, and is a perennial hot button issue with them.

You start running a 210 filled with boxes with no seats and a cargo net...it will get someone's attention, and sooner or later, it will get looked into. The reaction will either be an anal probe or "nah, that's the guy doing part 91 stuff. He came around and talked to us, and he's ok". Take your pick.

If what you are planning is on the up and up, the feds will have zero problem with it.

Nu