Initial CFI 'rides at the FSDO

[Alchemy]

I've got my initial CFI ride scheduled with the FSDO for early january. What kind of differences from my checkrides with the local DPE can I expect on the oral and flight portions at the FSDO?

I've been hitting the ASA CFI-oral exam guide, part 61, part 91, the AIM, and some aerodynamics books pretty hard for the past few weeks. In addition, I've been reading through Kershner's CFI book and have read the Jeppesen CFI book cover to cover. I've been going up solo 2 times a week, performing commercial pts manevers and talking through them (as I would with a student). I've been going up with my Instructor once a week, treating him as a student and "teaching" him the commercial maneuvers and some primary maneuvers. I am consistently able to perform all the PTS maneuvers to commercial tolerances from the right seat.

I've got a book of lesson plans over everything in the commercial, practical, and recreational PTS. I made some of them on my own and borrowed others from various Instructors. Will the DPE expect me to "create" a lesson plan from scratch during the oral (to test me on my knowledge of making lesson plans)? I've been structuring my ground lesson plans in much the same way as flight lesson plans (demonstration/performance). I've haven't put too much about specific scripted "attention/motivation/overview/development/conclusion" into my lesson plans, as I feel I can improv most of this if required to give a lecture on a topic.

I've been making a strong effort to memorize as much of the FOI type material as possible, however a friend of mine who recently passed his CFI-initial at the same FSDO said FOI topics weren't emphasized on the oral. Perhaps I should concentrate more on part 91/61 regulations while continuing to memorize the elements and common errors for all applicable maneuvers.

Was anyone asked much about recreational licenses during their checkride? Besides needing 30 hours instead of 40 for the signoff, needing an endorsment to fly at any airport within 50 NM, and an additional endorsment/triaining to fly farther than 50, being limited to single engine fixed gear aircraft with less than 180 hp, and restricted to less than 10,000 MSL or 2,000 AGL (whichever is higher), carrying no more than 1 pax, not being able to fly at night, and having to carry their logbook with them on all flights, what should I know about recreational licenses?

Thanks for your help!

 

[bobbysamd]

The key is preparation . . . .

CFI practicals by FSDO run the gamut, as do CFI practicals by DEs. You can expect a very thorough and in-depth test; after all, the PTS states you must exhibit "instructional" knowledge. Some examiners give 8-10 hour orals; others can tell if you know your stuff in 2-4 hours. It primarily depends on the examiner.

You will be held responsible for everything set forth in the PTS for the instructor certificate and rating you're seeking. People don't seem to believe the PTS is the test. The test is drawn from the publications listed in the PTS. Therefore, I would urge you to locate these books and hit them hard. FAA pubs are always the last word on what the FAA wants you to know, how to do it and how to teach it. You should know the material cold and be able to locate quickly in the FAA pubs thing about which you're asked but don't know.

The examiner will ask you to prepare a lesson plan from scratch. The lesson plan better be in the format set forth in the FOI. And, you better be able to explain it thoroughly. If the examiner detects that you aren't sure of what you're talking about, you may find yourself painted into a corner with no escape. So, throw out the idea of improvisation.

Be well prepared to explain the FOI beyond rote memorization. You may be hit on only a few aspects of it, but you will be expected to know them in depth. It's not a bad idea at all to really learn and understand the FOI. Its principles work. It's how we do business.

Finally, be prepared to teach for the duration of the practical. In other words, keep the mouth running. You should not stop teaching until the examiner hands you your Temporary.

Know the endorsements. Study and have a copy of AC 61-65 available.

Hope that helps. Good luck with your practical.

PS-They are not "licenses." The FAA issues "certificates." Other aviation authorities, such as Transport Canada, issue "licenses." Be sure of your terminology.

 

[tathepilot]

cfi ride

Where are you located?
I'm taking my ride on tuesday the 30th.
The fsdo couldn't accommodate me so I'm going with the local dpe.

 

[SwissAviator]

the CFI ride is pretty indepth. the guy at the fsdo or the de will propably have you teach him most of the private/commercial maneuvers. you may want to show up with a binder of lesson plans and drawings, saves time if he lets you use them and also makes you look way more prepared, maybe even won't be as hard on you. either way the fsdo isn't out to fail anybody.

good luck on the ride, hope all goes well

 

[Alchemy]

I'm located in Austin, Texas and will be taking the 'ride at the San Antonio FSDO.

Thanks for the replies so far. I'll look through the CFI PTS's reference publications and try to obtain a copy of each one. I do have several advisory ciruculars in my notebook (including 61-65), as well as the "aviation instructors handbook", "pilot's handbook of aeronautical knowledge", and "airplane flying handbook", and of course the 2004 FAR/AIM. Using the Aviation Instructor's Handbook in concert with the OEG has provided me with a solid working knowledge of FOI concepts, but some parts just have to memorized, like the 8 characteristics of an effective critique or each one of the principles of learning. I've logged 10hrs of Ground Instruction from my CFI over the concepts of the FOI (he had me give him 5 two hour lectures over the topics in the GLEIM FOI written exam guide and the AIH). As long as I can remember and list all the elements/principles of a particular topic, I have no problem explaining why they are necessary.

I've been using the PTS as my main "study guide", and making written notes in the PTS "outlining" the main points I need to hit on each topic. I do plan on bringing the following to the FSDO on during my test:

binder of Lesson Plans, Drawings, and AC's
The Airplane Flying Handbook
Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge
Aviation Instructor's Handbook
FAR/AIM, CFI PTS, Commercial PTS, Private PTS
the usual Logbook w/ endorsments, 2 8710's (one for the AGI also), Hood, Maybe a dry erase board incase they don't have one at the FSDO


And yeah, I have to start saying "certificates". Hard to break that "license" habit. Kind of like the "you have the flight controls, I have the flight controls, you have the flight controls" spiel vs. "your airplane, my airplane".

 

[Whirlwind]

With respect to Captain Levy (whom I borrowed this from):

Captain Levy's CFI Checkride Hints

1. You are a teacher, not a pilot. How you teach is far more important than how you fly the plane. It doesn't matter if you slightly screw up a maneuver, as long as you identify the screw-up as it happens, talk about why it happened, and then how to do it right.

2. Don't rush into any answers. When asked questions, show the examiner where the answer is written -- you're showing how to teach a student, not demonstrating your own superior knowledge. That means you should know COLD where to find the answers -- if asked about the red/green/white tower light gun signals, it shouldn't take you more than a few seconds to get to the right page in the AIM. And you should know instantly whether an answer to an FAR question is in Part 61 or Part 91 (HINT: If the rule applies no matter who's flying the plane, it's in 91. If not, it's in 61.)

3. Be relaxed and organized. When asked a to teach an item, take a moment to gather your thoughts and draw out any blackboard diagrams or itemized lists for the lesson. You're not on "Jeopardy" -- there's no one gonna beat you to the buzzer and steal your $200 prize.

4. Inventory your stuff before you go to the meet -- the checklist in the PTS is a good tool. Make sure you have all the source materials to teach as well as answer all the questions in the PTS.

5. Typically, during the oral, the examiner will jump on one topic and continue asking questions until you run out of answers. In the Air Force, we called this game "Stump the Dummy." As the questioner knows more than the questionee about the topic he selected (which is why the questioner selected it), the final outcome (the dummy is stumped) is never in doubt. The critical elements are how far the dummy can get before being stumped, and how he handles the situation -- straight knowledge, clear explanations, use of the book when appropriate or necessary, and no BS or tap-dancing when finally stumped.

6. Expect a long, grueling session. You're being given the authority to release others into the sky without anyone else's oversight. They want to make darn sure you can make good decisions in that respect. For that reason, I think the initial CFI is the most significant ride you'll ever take.

Good luck,
Ron Levy, CFI since 1973

 

[cubegirl7]

what do you mean by this?
" Part 61 or Part 91 (HINT: If the rule applies no matter who's flying the plane, it's in 91. If not, it's in 61.)"

 

[bobbysamd]

Part 61 v. Part 91

what do you mean by this?
" Part 61 or Part 91 (HINT: If the rule applies no matter who's flying the plane, it's in 91. If not, it's in 61.)"

14 CFR 61 deals primarily with certification and training matters. 14 CFR 91 are the general operating and flight rules. In other words, Part 61 addresses what you need to do and the requirements you must meet to earn an airman certificate. Part 91 addresses what you do while operating the aircraft.

 

[liv'n_on_credit]

61/91

Or to put it like one of my old flight instructors used to put it:

"Part 61 gives you the certificate, Part 91 can take it away."