Independence/Frontier Merger?

[idriver]

Rumor has it, management at IAir and Frontier are talking possible merger. Anyone have any knowledge or info?

 

[ILStoMinimums]

Both have or will have Buses.....thats one thing in common other than both being LCC's - is F9 a LCC?

 

[350DRIVER]

I could not imagine Frontier taking on this kind of a "gamble", it would go against logical reasoning. You have a product that is yet to be proven on one side of the coin and on the other side you have a proven, profitable, successful, growing, solid route structure, etc, in Frontier. . It sure would be nice for them Indi Air guys though, it would be like christmas in Sept.
It sure sounds like this "rumor" is somewhat of a loose cannon at best that has mis-fired quite badly.

I would be highly surprised if any truth to this even exists. Frontier has little to gain (if anything) and everything to loose given the state of this industry if they were to undertake such a gamble.

any links or articles to substantiate this claim?.


3 5 0

 

[HAZ-MAT]

The ACA Lounge has no mention of it. (yet) so I will go ahead and think that its one of those wonderful rumors

 

[46Driver]

Just like many other industries, I believe the airlines are ripe for consolidation. I would not be surprised to see airlines merging with others to improve route structures and gain mass to protect against bigger carriers such as Southwest, etc. One big item would certainly be equipment similarity.

 

[F9 Driver]

Just my opinion...

I can't see F9 merging with anyone any time soon.

I DO think that we'll see some code shares that will allow the smaller LCC's to expand their networks cheaply with little risk.

If I donate my $.02 is it deductable?

 

[crxpilot]

idriver, i think the only rumor is the one in your head....

 

[GogglesPisano]

3-5 years

IF . . .

... Independence Air is successful, it will be acquired/merged with a West Coast LCC within 3-5 years, when there is a massive round of consolidation in the LCC industry. The East Coast - West Coast hubs will be complimentary, and the RJ's will be on their way to the desert by then.

That's what my crystal ball says. Of course, it's been wrong before.

 

[350DRIVER]

Goggles,

I knew I would agree with you at some point, was just a matter of time. I do agree that if IA is successful then 3 to 5 years from now then it is quite possible we will see a merger here once the product has been proven. I just hope you guys can wx an already over-saturated market.

What is the lease agreement that ya'll have in place that was negotiated? I haven't really seen anything with regards to this.

good luck,

3 5 0

 

[Propsync]

I could see it, if Indy can dislodge United out of IAD. It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. Two hubs that can easily feed west/east coast, not trying to LCC coast to coast, where yields get tighter, like Jet Blue. I don't have a dog in this discussion, but I think it could work. Actually, sounds like a good idea, in a while....

 

[Heavy Set]

The only problem with this senario is that Indy has 85 CRJs (not good for LCC economics---note Airtran).

 

[GogglesPisano]

You are correct, sir

The only problem with this senario is that Indy has 85 CRJs (not good for LCC economics---note Airtran).

87 actually. That's one of the reasons that, with 5 years here and 2500 hrs Jet PIC, I am seriously considering bidding A319 FO to get the type and Airbus time.

Just in case.

 

[belchfire]

I'm having a little trouble
with the downing of the
rj for a lcc. Midway was
profitable till Nov or Dec
of 2000 running a largely
rj fleet. They died of
mismanagement.

 

[46Driver]

I'm having a little trouble
with the downing of the
rj for a lcc. Midway was
profitable till Nov or Dec
of 2000 running a largely
rj fleet. They died of
mismanagement.

I tend to think the same thing. If you are flying into cities that will only support 40 passengers per flight, it would be more economical to fly an RJ to that city than a 737 or Airbus. Therefore, Indy Air will be to service cities to small for JetBlue or Southwest. What am I missing here?

 

[DorkProp]

I tend to think the same thing. If you are flying into cities that will only support 40 passengers per flight, it would be more economical to fly an RJ to that city than a 737 or Airbus. Therefore, Indy Air will be to service cities to small for JetBlue or Southwest. What am I missing here?

If I may add my thoughts...

For a legacy carrier, which has to serve your example city to be competitive and provide feed to the larger cities, an RJ makes more sense than a mainline aircraft. However, for a LCC, routes are chosen based on profitability. That's why few if any LCCs fly to the small markets. So if Independence is competing directly with other LCCs on a particular route, it will all come down to CSMs, which for a 50-seat RJ is around 15 cents or more.

 

[Heavy Set]

RJ CASM for Comair is supposedly 22 cents. Who's fault is that? My pilot friends at DELTA.

 

[FDJ2]

IfSo if Independence is competing directly with other LCCs on a particular route, it will all come down to CSMs, which for a 50-seat RJ is around 15 cents or more.

It might be 15 cents as a regional feeder but for Indy as an independent airline it's 22 cents. It will be a challenge for Indy to get the Airbuses fast enough to offset the high cost of it's RJ fleet and spread the cost around.

 

[GogglesPisano]

It might be 15 cents as a regional feeder but for Indy as an independent airline it's 22 cents. It will be a challenge for Indy to get the Airbuses fast enough to offset the high cost of it's RJ fleet and spread the cost around.

You can say that again. With the exception of Fridays and Sundays, I've averaged 10-20 peeps in the back. That's unsustainable.

 

[Machdog1]

Experts?

You know some times reading these post I have to laugh because everybody thinks that they are experts about what it takes to make an airline profitable and how the RJ's can't make money as a LCC. Well we have gone from a United express airline to independence air in just about three months a feet not done by any other airline. Though are loads have been low at times they are picking up steadily, fall load factors as of now system wide are showing around 67%. Not bad for an airline thats been around for 3 months. Those loads are not even including the Airbus which starts service in the fall. The RJs are going to cities that have no LCC service at all the cities and passengers are dying for us to be there. The RJs (ijets) contrary to popular belief are one of the keys to our success. So save your comments for if we are successful or if we fail, till then do your job and fly the airplane and shutup!

 

[idriver]

Thx Machdog, well said....

Now, tell us what you really think!

Anyway, the loads are low right now - and so are the loads at all other airlines in the fall. I'm optimistic that the busses are gonna carry the loads even higher....
Speaking of the passengers - yes they do love them and the service they recieve. I'm just a bit worried about the marketing strategy; more people need to know about us. I wish they would hit universities(go home to ma/pa for the weekend), coporate accounts and even the government(hello - we're in DC).

BTW is F9 ALPA?