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In case you were wondering if getting out's a good idea....

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gringo

As good as it gets.
Joined
Feb 20, 2005
Posts
381
You can add this to your ammo belt when the little voice inside your head nags "are you suuure this is a good idea?..."

Washington Post, Feb 27th 2007

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/26/AR2007022601229.html

Here's the article:

In its brief but glorious life, JetBlue Airways has become a business school case study. Business junkies everywhere have praised the customer service, new planes and clever marketing that turned JetBlue from a concept into the nation's eighth-largest airline in only eight years. But now that JetBlue has bungled its way into a Valentine's Day customer massacre and become the butt of late-night comics' jokes, there are two more lessons it has to teach us: First, if you're going to screw up, don't do it in the nation's biggest media market during a slow news week. Second, airlines are an unforgiving, financially dreadful business that have been net money losers for 60 years.

Here's the deal. Unless you haven't watched TV since mid-February, you know that on Feb. 14, JetBlue ended up with thousands of passengers trapped at New York's John F. Kennedy International Airport, the hub of its operations. This became continuous TV fodder because it was a slow week for news and New York has lots of camera crews. Inexcusably, JetBlue let its problems repeat like a bad pastrami sandwich: It had up to 5,000 angry customers at JFK's Terminal 6, some of whom were stuck there for days. There were also 2,500 pieces of misplaced -- and oh-so-telegenic -- luggage.

"We ran into an operational death spiral," said JetBlue spokeswoman Jenny Dervin. "We let our customers down, and we're terribly sorry it happened." The company is saying all the right things, and trying to do them, too. It has adopted what it calls a "customer bill of rights" that provides varying levels of compensation to customers depending on how badly it screws up their travel plans. It promised to cancel flights in the face of bad weather instead of trapping passengers on runways, and canceled 68 flights yesterday, although some customers complained that they were stuck on runways for hours anyway. What remains to be seen is if JetBlue can recover its major asset: its reputation for awesome customer service.

There has been lots of attention on how much the debacle will cost JetBlue, which last week reduced its profit projections for the year. JetBlue projects its cash outlay for the storm problem at $14 million -- $10 million in passenger refunds, the rest for overtime and such. Even when you include those apologetic ads the company bought, it's small change: JetBlue had $699 million of cash at year-end and revenue of $2.4 billion. So you're talking about a loss of 2 percent of its cash and a few days of business -- nothing approaching a mortal blow. JetBlue also gave customers $16 million in travel vouchers, but vouchers aren't the same as cash.

JetBlue had run into financial headwinds well before the February ice storm hit. In its high-flying days in 2003, it earned more than $100 million. But as the company expanded rapidly, it became harder to manage. Fuel costs started rising, profits lost altitude, losses hit in 2005 and 2006. I think JetBlue's fundamental problem is that despite its advantages -- it started life with a ton of cash from investors like George Soros, it bought new planes rather than relics, it has a smart and charismatic leader in David Neeleman -- it's in a truly terrible business.

Consider this: Since 1947, the first year for which the Air Transport Association has profit-and-loss figures, the U.S. airline industry has lost a cumulative $14 billion. And that's after including the up to $3 billion the association estimates that airlines made last year.

"Grocery stores give you better returns," said Michael Boyd, a Colorado-based airline consultant. "Airlines are a crummy business, and will always be a crummy business." When people ask about starting an airline, Boyd told me, "first, we say no. Then, if they still want to do it, we say, 'Only if you're using your ex-wife's money.' "

I'll spare you the details of how JetBlue got into big operational problems when the ice storm hit and failed to turn to rain and snow, as the airline expected. What still intrigues me is how a smart, customer-focused outfit like JetBlue shut down service to such markets as Richmond, Raleigh-Durham, N.C., and Portland, Maine, all relatively easy one-day drives from New York, and let those passengers sit at JFK for days instead of chartering buses. JetBlue's Dervin says it's because the company felt that roads were unsafe for days after the storm.

A final note: Amtrak runs trains from New York to Richmond, Raleigh and Portland. I should have asked JetBlue why it didn't put its passengers on trains, but even I -- an Amtrak Select Plus customer, yet -- never considered rail service as an option. The lesson: We think of government-owned Amtrak as money-losing socialism, but the money-losing airline industry as a bunch of noble capitalists. Maybe we should re-examine our national transportation policies the way JetBlue is rethinking its customer-service policies.
 
Dude, you got out. Good for you. Why are you trying to justify your exit on flightinfo? Are you not sure in your decision? That's what I see at least. Why do you keep posting here if you wanted out of flying?
 
Dude, you got out. Good for you. Why are you trying to justify your exit on flightinfo? Are you not sure in your decision? That's what I see at least. Why do you keep posting here if you wanted out of flying?

I don't have to justify anything. Jumping from that sinking ship was the best decision I've ever made- the purpose of the post was to encourage others who are looking to do the same thing, or who have recently done so, and now are stuck remembering all the "good ol times", totally forgetting what a cr@phole industry this has turned into.

That is, after all, the entire purpose of this category.

On a further note, why do you morons keep thinking that a guy can't post on Flightinfo if he dosen't wear a uniform anymore? Maybe you should ask the moderators to remove all the non-airline specific topics and rename the site to flightinfoforairlinepilotsonly.com. Then maybe I'd stop posting.

Until then, though, I'm more than happy to help others see that the s#it sandwitch they've been munching on for so long for what it really is- a big, steaming runny slop of poop garnished with a dobble of crap and nestled between two nicely toasted dung patties.

Happy flying!
 
I don't have to justify anything. Jumping from that sinking ship was the best decision I've ever made- the purpose of the post was to encourage others who are looking to do the same thing, or who have recently done so, and now are stuck remembering all the "good ol times", totally forgetting what a cr@phole industry this has turned into.

That is, after all, the entire purpose of this category.

On a further note, why do you morons keep thinking that a guy can't post on Flightinfo if he dosen't wear a uniform anymore? Maybe you should ask the moderators to remove all the non-airline specific topics and rename the site to flightinfoforairlinepilotsonly.com. Then maybe I'd stop posting.

Until then, though, I'm more than happy to help others see that the s#it sandwitch they've been munching on for so long for what it really is- a big, steaming runny slop of poop garnished with a dobble of crap and nestled between two nicely toasted dung patties.

Happy flying!

What are you going to do now? Drive a school bus.

Now it's your turn reply back about the job that your brother-in-laws friend got you hooked up with and minimum salary, and I mean MINIMUM is $180,000 a year. This job was just floating around out there waiting for you.

I've been a member of this board for awhile and have seen this type of post many a time. So I'm just having some fun with it.

Peace
 
I don't have to justify anything. Jumping from that sinking ship was the best decision I've ever made- the purpose of the post was to encourage others who are looking to do the same thing, or who have recently done so, and now are stuck remembering all the "good ol times", totally forgetting what a cr@phole industry this has turned into.

That is, after all, the entire purpose of this category.

On a further note, why do you morons keep thinking that a guy can't post on Flightinfo if he dosen't wear a uniform anymore? Maybe you should ask the moderators to remove all the non-airline specific topics and rename the site to flightinfoforairlinepilotsonly.com. Then maybe I'd stop posting.

Until then, though, I'm more than happy to help others see that the s#it sandwitch they've been munching on for so long for what it really is- a big, steaming runny slop of poop garnished with a dobble of crap and nestled between two nicely toasted dung patties.

Happy flying!
While your description of the "Sandwich" if you will, does give me a hankering for McDonalds at this moment...that's besides the point.

What you're stating is purely subjective. To encourage others to take the leap because it worked for you??? That's like saying "I tried crack once and didn't get addicted, neither will you!"

All I see on your post is hate filled opinions of an industry that you feel slighted by. Funny part is, I didn't see anybody asking for your opinion in the form of this post. Now, if someone said, hey Gringo...how's the new schedule working out for you? Well, there you go. But for now, this post is nothing but an answer to a question no one asked.

Respectfully,

Non-Airline Pilot Doug
 
Now it's your turn reply back about the job that your brother-in-laws friend got you hooked up with and minimum salary, and I mean MINIMUM is $180,000 a year. This job was just floating around out there waiting for you.
No kidding, F16Fixer!:laugh:
 
I've been a member of this board for awhile and have seen this type of post many a time. Peace

Same here. Every time I see a post like that, my first thought is: This is a guy who deeply regrets his decision to leave flying and looking for someone to tell him it was the right thing to do. And every time an airplane flys overhead, his reaction is the same as mine (or any 5 year old kid). He looks up and watch until it's out of sight.
 
Same here. Every time I see a post like that, my first thought is: This is a guy who deeply regrets his decision to leave flying and looking for someone to tell him it was the right thing to do. And every time an airplane flys overhead, his reaction is the same as mine (or any 5 year old kid). He looks up and watch until it's out of sight.
That's all it is, GoingHot. He's now outside looking in, trying to convince himself that he made the right move. But after all, we're just a bunch of "Morons" as he put it:rolleyes:
So what do we know?
 
Now it's your turn reply back about the job that your brother-in-laws friend got you hooked up with and minimum salary, and I mean MINIMUM is $180,000 a year. This job was just floating around out there waiting for you.

I must have missed something- where does the minimum $180k come into play? Whatever my current pay is, it's FAR better than anything the regionals could have offered me, probably on par with the majors, and I don't have to go through 10 years of bs, building my seniority and hoping the airline I work for dosen't go bankrupt. Took me 6 months to get to this point, with none of the associated bs.

What you're stating is purely subjective. To encourage others to take the leap because it worked for you??? That's like saying "I tried crack once and didn't get addicted, neither will you!"

Again, that's the entire purpose of this section- to encourage those looking to make the same decision so many others have. I'm not the only one who bailed and is making a far better life out there; I'm just the minority. Sorry- I'm not going to "rah rah" this industry anymore, and I'll provide inspiration to anyone who wants to listen.

Not a day goes by that I don't thank god I got out- on the rare occasion I have to pass through the airport these days and deal with all the insanity (read TSA), I can't even imagine having to deal with that irritation on a daily basis.

To clarify the "morons" comment, it's directed at those who keep asking "well, you don't fly (in uniform) anymore, why do you keep coming back here? (to Flightinfo)" to which I already clarified. Perhaps not enough.

I'm not looking for anyone to tell me I made the right decision- the only people I have to answer to is my wife and myself. I sleep very well at night knowing that my heart, my wife, my family life and my bank accounts all reflect that it was the right decision. It was a decision, btw, made roughly 6 months after donning a uniform for the first time. The job was "fun", but I realized early on that there was no way in hell I was going to put up with 30 years of bs.

Perhaps you can. Guess that makes you a better person than me.

And yes, I look up when an airplane flies overhead- it's a curse of all aviators everywhere, except those who hate their careers so much they can't stand it anymore. You probably know more than a few.
 
Easy, quick, high paying jobs, also go away real easy, but good luck too you. The salary comment was a joke tributed to all those who brag about some job that they don't have and rant about some salary that they don't make. If you have any sense of humor you'll figure it out. Although I know that jokes are some times hard to get across on a chat board.
 
and I don't have to go through 10 years of bs, building my seniority and hoping the airline I work for dosen't go bankrupt. Took me 6 months to get to this point, with none of the associated bs.

The BS will come with time...trust me, you're still on the "honeymoon"
At my desk job, I was hired with three other individuals, after 9 months, I was the only one left. The company cut costs as they saw fit to keep their budget in check. Those were just the people I was hired with, it happened to several others, and by no means was fair at all. The b!tch of it was, the company found excuses in each case as to why they did not have to offer severance packages.

Again, that's the entire purpose of this section- to encourage those looking to make the same decision so many others have. I'm not the only one who bailed and is making a far better life out there; I'm just the minority. Sorry- I'm not going to "rah rah" this industry anymore, and I'll provide inspiration to anyone who wants to listen.

Again, come back in 6 months...then a year...then a year after that and tell me how grand life is. Sounds like you took what you perceived to be an "easier" path...everybody has to learn somehow.

Perhaps you can. Guess that makes you a better person than me.

Nobody is claiming to be better than anyone on here. Different strokes for different folks. What works for you won't necessarily work for others. I know people who have left the industry. Some are fine, other's are having a tough time dealing with it.









 
and I don't have to go through 10 years of bs, building my seniority and hoping the airline I work for dosen't go bankrupt. Took me 6 months to get to this point, with none of the associated bs.

The BS will come with time...trust me, you're still on the "honeymoon"
At my desk job, I was hired with three other individuals, after 9 months, I was the only one left. The company cut costs as they saw fit to keep their budget in check. Those were just the people I was hired with, it happened to several others, and by no means was fair at all. The b!tch of it was, the company found excuses in each case as to why they did not have to offer severance packages.


That's the real world, and it happens to every industry. Especially the airlines.
Again, that's the entire purpose of this section- to encourage those looking to make the same decision so many others have. I'm not the only one who bailed and is making a far better life out there; I'm just the minority. Sorry- I'm not going to "rah rah" this industry anymore, and I'll provide inspiration to anyone who wants to listen.

Again, come back in 6 months...then a year...then a year after that and tell me how grand life is. Sounds like you took what you perceived to be an "easier" path...everybody has to learn somehow.


I've been out for over a year now, and haven't looked back. First couple of months were hard, but just like any addiction, the longer you stay clean, the easier it gets.
Perhaps you can. Guess that makes you a better person than me.

Nobody is claiming to be better than anyone on here. Different strokes for different folks. What works for you won't necessarily work for others. I know people who have left the industry. Some are fine, other's are having a tough time dealing with it.

Again, just like any other industry.

[/QUOTE]

All right. First of all, I never said that it's easier on the other side. (And if I did, I retract that statement; I don't have the time nor desire to read through all of my previous posts to find out) If anything, I'm working harder than I ever did as an airline pilot. The difference is that when I come home to my wife (every night) I come home with a sense of accomplishment; I can point to things and say "I did that- I made that" or "I directed the people who created that thing out of nothing". As an airline pilot, the only sense of accomplishment I got was I got to read USA Today every day. About as much as a bus driver.

And secondly, did you even actually read the article on the first post? I even bold-printed the pertinent part, which I'll add here :


Consider this: Since 1947, the first year for which the Air Transport Association has profit-and-loss figures, the U.S. airline industry has lost a cumulative $14 billion. And that's after including the up to $3 billion the association estimates that airlines made last year.


If you ever took any basic entry level economics courses, you'd understand what I'm saying; in an industry that has, in the long run, NEVER made money, it is IMPOSSIBLE to expect any kind of rewarding long term career out of it, with very few exceptions. Those exceptions being your name followed with the initials C.E.O..

Yes, I understand that most of the money was lost post-9/11, but something else that I understand (and so many people here do not, or simply refuse to accept) is the the airline industry changed COMPLETELY with it- long gone are the glory days of Pan Am and TWA- say hello to the craphole it is today. Because it's here to stay. You will NEVER make anywhere NEAR as much as you once could have, and your QOL will NEVER, I repeat NEVER be nearly as good. NEVER. Pilots and air crew have become the new Greyhound Bus drivers of the 21st century, and it will always stay that way because Grandma and Grampa really really REALLY like paying only $200 to go to Florida roundtrip, when it costs 5 times as much to take the train.

Will you survive in the short run? Sure. You'll probably make decent money for a bit. But it won't last, no matter how much Kool Aid ALPA or whoever else pours down your throat.

But seriously, I wish you luck. I hope that time will prove me wrong, but I serously doubt it.
 
That's the real world, and it happens to every industry. Especially the airlines.
Not necessarily flying in general...what about Cargo? What about Corporate? What about fracs?

The difference is that when I come home to my wife (every night) I come home with a sense of accomplishment; I can point to things and say "I did that- I made that" or "I directed the people who created that thing out of nothing". As an airline pilot, the only sense of accomplishment I got was I got to read USA Today every day. About as much as a bus driver.
That's one thing I like about a career based in aviation: definite results. Sure, the desk job had its sense of accomplishment, but alot of times, you could work 2 or 3 months on a project to have it fizzle...or handed off to another team. The projects didn't have borders as well defined as flying, i.e. take-off, enroute, and landing.

And secondly, did you even actually read the article on the first post?
Actually, I didn't. But I did study the airlines in school and am familiar with their money losing trends. Very high fixed costs.

You will NEVER make anywhere NEAR as much as you once could have, and your QOL will NEVER, I repeat NEVER be nearly as good. NEVER. Pilots and air crew have become the new Greyhound Bus drivers of the 21st century.
Have you opened a newspaper lately? It's the new American fad. Where an average household in 1955 could be supported by a single income, it now takes TWO incomes to equal today. Look at the amount of work being shipped over seas and there is part of your answer. The difference between the average CEO pay and the average employee pay has never been so great in US business...and it's getting bigger! Give it 50 years and the US will be alot like Europe in many areas. People with 2-3 hour commutes to work because housing costs will be out of control in the urban areas.

And just for the record, I do agree with you that the airlines are in the $hitter, and it will get worse, sadly. But you can still make a living flying.
 
This post is in civilian transition. If you like flying and don't want to quit then stop trolling around the C.T board slamming on people that are looking at other options.

Just like everything in life, some people love somethings and some people don't. If you love flying and rent a 172 on days that you are timed out then congrats, there are 20 boards on this website that are geared towards you.
 

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