IFR Avionics

[FlyingBeast]

Hey All,
Just passed my private checkride about a month ago and I've decided to commit to aviation for the long term. I'm currently looking to buy a plane to do my instrument on and to log massive amounts of hours because renting sucks.
I'm pretty sure of what features I'm looking for in terms of the VFR flying I'm doing now. I'm pretty clueless though about what kinda avionics I would realistically want for day and night IFR in terms of VOR, ADF, COM radios, GPS, DME, etc... of all this equipment and/or any other you guys can think of what is practically essential? what's nice to have? what's useless? and what's overkill?

 

[Chas]

my opinion

dual navs one with glide slope one with localizer capability. I would definitely get an adf for ndb approaches ( AM reception too) An IFR GPS is nice but the updates are very pricey and install is costly . A basic autopilot like an stec 30 would be great to help with pilot workload. DME would be neat but overkill. I have an anywhere map which is a cheap moving map gps that has a virtual localizer, glideslope and turn coordinator ,but would strictly be to aid in situational awareness only. Oh and a standby vacuum system in case of vacuum piump failure Thats my opinion being a plane owner on a limited budget. Chas

 

[DAS at 10/250]

How is DME overkill? How would you expect to shoot a VOR DME approach, identify a DME fix, perform a DME arc, identify the FAF on an ILS with no LOM (such as SAT), distance from station (without weaving all over the place), or performing a STAR or DP, or identifying your COP?

Just curious.

 

[Chas]

My opinion ....

is that I would choose DME last over all the other avionics I discussed That opinion comes from being a plane owner where you balance between avionics and the check book. Obviously if hes loaded than he should get the DME but I dont believe many of us are loaded on this board . BTW how many civilian pilot /plane owners do you know who actually have DME . A new DME unit runs arpund 2,500 before the installation.
The previous owner of my plane installed a radar altimeter but where do you draw the line ???
Oh and outta curiosity how many times have you flown a DME Arc other than for practice or instructing? Chas

 

[Whirlwind]

DME for IFR flying is very useful indeed. All you have to do is look at an IFR enroute chart and see all the DME distances listed on the chart to see how useful it really is.

This being said, until you've flown IFR using a modern IFR certified GPS, you don't know what you're missing.

 

[tarp]

Money $$$$ Money:

Whada ya got, whada ya goin spend?

A nice IFR C-172 or Cherokee is going to run any where from $50K to $200K(for a new one).

I consider dual NAV/COM's to be essential with at least one with a GS receiver (2 is better).

GPS is just about going from "nice to have" to essential. It truly has become "the" box of choice in aviation. The only bad news - great boxes like the Garmin 430 are going for $9000 installed and the big screen 530 is even more.

I love ADF's and teaching NDB approaches but to tell you the truth, they are dying and shooting an NDB approach with an ADF receiver is about as popular as flying a "four-course" airway. As the GPS comes to the foreground, ADF's are passing away.

DME is better than nice to have BUT if you have IFR GPS, it replaces the need for DME.

Built-in, good quality intercom is essential in my mind. I hate having to teach in airplanes where there is a tangle of headphone cords, intercom boxes, power supplies, etc for me to trip on, step on and get in the way of the controls.

Standby vacuum system and instructions on how to use it (priceless).

My view of a perfect GA airplane for comfortable IFR would have the following (this is in my dreams....):

Garmin 530 #1 (Remember this is GPS, #1 NAV and #1COM, DME all in one box) [$15K installed]

Garmin 430 #2 (GPS, #2 NAV, #2 COM - redundant radio) [$9K installed]

Garmin Audio panel has intercom, Marker Beacons and radio control functions built in. [$3K installed]

A good old fashioned ADF so I have a radio to listen to and a backup plan if all else fails and the satellites fall out of the sky.
[$1.2K installed]

Mode C Xpndr (reqd) [$2K installed]

Something for T-storms (Strikefinder, stormscope, radar-pricey) - they are developing the stormscope combo with the Garmin.[$4K to $20K installed]

#1 radio slaved to HSI - love HSI displays! [$20K installed] - just dreaming away.

Good luck - we all have dreams of the perfect airplane for us, then we settle for what we can afford.

 

[TXCAP4228]

DME is better than nice to have BUT if you have IFR GPS, it replaces the need for DME.

Tarp makes some great points. However, I wanted to vent a little frustration on this particular subject. While what Tarp has said is true, if for some reason your GPS quits or you have not updated the database (because your laptop computer batteries are dead or because you didn't have time to download it, or the wiring thingy that plugs into the panel develped a short and the GPS cannot recognize the incommming update, or you just decided to quite paying the money for it or whatever), then your IFR gps no longer replaces DME.

What you have at that point, without a DME, is a /U airplane. That's sort of a pain in the @ss. DME is very nice to have.

The points that DAS made above about how helpful DME can be should be taken to heart.


My primary requirements would be:
2 OBS's, one of which would have a glide slope.
2 King Radios (yeah, I like the 530/430 but I can't afford it)
An ADF
DME

I would like an HSI, but that would be an upgrade....


Of course, if money is no object then get what Tarp suggested. You CANNOT go wrong with that stuff as long as you continue the updates.

 

[SierraPilot]

In my opinon, GPS, and autopilot are just "nice to have" things in the plane, and while GPS may be the wave of the future it still doesnt take away the need to know the basics of IFR flying and keeping them up to date, and while ADF will surely be phased out all together someday, there are still alot of places that use them .

My opinion is if your on a fixed budget just get the essentials:

2 Radios
2 Nav's 1 with a glideslope
1 ADF
1 DME

and your set for basic IFR. Now if you have money to throw around, by all means get a HSI!, and GPS and autopilot never hurts.. then again "real pilots" dont need a autopilot or GPS

Wait until you get a job flying for some budget part 135 op, who cant afford GPS or autopilot and flying single pilot IFR and now you wish you hadnt become so dependent on them.

Ryan