below find a reprint from the other "general" forum in regard to the problems the airlines are faced with.....
I thought this might stir some positive comments, maybe some flamming, but lets try to make this civil....: JMHO here.
Col Bill USAF (ret)
You know many other industries have alliances with each other and still compete at the same time. Oil companies, Rx, many more...none of them are loosing money...
People will always fly, some will balk at increase fares...so.....we all balk at higher gas prices, taxes, a loaf of bread and a gallon of milk....so do we stop buying them because they went up on price NO......
The same applies for ALL the airlines....RAISE THE DARN FARES TO A PROFIETABLE LEVEL, The airlines need to form there own alliance to protect the fares....so what if the LCC don’t join...many people are sick and tried of the routine they must endure at a SWA or Airtran gate to get somewhere......If the airlines in this alliance were to go on a 1 month shut down, the LCCs could not carry all of them, the lines and over bookings would be terrible and they would plead for someone to do something to get more people back in the air...
AIR TRAVELERS NEED A WAKE-UP CALL..... EVERYONE RAISE THE PRICES
How is that this industry has not followed suit with everything else we buy everyday??? its got to stop, NOW stop taking form the employees, make the people pay the tab as they do everywhere else...
Auto gas prices went through the roof this summer, we complained and then went out and filled up the SUV so we could continue our life style.....
Comment by : 414flyer
Your advice would also be illegal too. If the airlines got together to coordinate raising of prices, government would also come down on them pretty hard and rightfully so. Price fixing and monopolies are not compatible with free market and competion.
I am sure if GM/Ford/Chrysler all announced one day there were acting in unison and upping the price of autos together, by a fixed amount, there would be a big outcry, even on here.
While thinking if the airlines just raised prices together would solve problems, and while it may in the short term, it still would not be a long term solution and would only put off the problems they are facing.
While I certainly do not want to see the legacy carriers go away, I also would not support a price cartel to prop them up either.
That would be a very bad road to go down too. can you imagine what would happen after that? Every company out there having problems would demand the same thing.
Reply by: RVSM410
414, please look at what you have said and then visit the local new car dealerships...."you make my point exactly"....in 1985 a new F-150 cost around $16,000 to buy new....loaded I might add, I bought one....I'm getting read to buy an new one and the same truck from the same plant is now $27,500.....
Look at all the new car types and its the same thing...they all have KEPT UP WITH INFLATION while competing on the open market......FURTHER WE ALL HAVE CONTINUIED TO BUY THEM BY THE BOAT LOADS!! Again you make my Original point very simple to see....all those assembly line workers are making darn good money......so should everyone in this industry!
I understand you cant set up an Monopoly, that by definition is illegal...but were not talking about one airline, I'm talking about EVERYONE, LEGACY, LCC, REGIONAL, no matter....
If you want to fly from A to B then it should cost a person about the same on anyone for the same level of service i.e. coach, biz or first class.....other services could be added as well for those that want more, or services removed for those that want less, but the base ticket from A to B costs this much..Period...just like that base model F-150....go to any ford dealer and you will pay about the same amount for that Base Model....
What’s the downside: will lets see, if legacy carriers continue to hemorrhage money to the point were they go out of business, don’t you think Uncle Sammy is going to step in and do something???
Of course Sammy already has, the ATSB was the first part of this action....So if the airlines WERE to form an Alliance, what would Uncle Sammy have to say in light of many bankruptcy proceedings to come? You have to operate at a loss, your shareholders are not entitled to make money, and the American people have a right to pay Wal-Mart fares???? NO, that argument would not hold water...but that is what is going on at the mainlines today....
Why are they letting this happen to them??? Competition from the LCC's....lets look at that one....the LCC's carried 28% of the total available seats last month...if the other legacy carriers or 72% were to stop flying next month...how would that 72% off travelers get to where they are going? the LCC's could not possibly handle it all, the public would be in total turmoil, the economy would go in the crapper. Uncle Sammy would have to step in... Like British Airways, or Amtrak, etc…
Would the LCC's like it, for the short term maybe, but if you stop and think about it...it would be a disaster...the LCC bean counters have projected the companies cost for many years in advance..they know that they WILL NOT BE AS COMPETITIVE in the FUTURE as they are now, their over-head will rise rapidly as the work force continues to gain seniority, the leased equipment will expire, or cost more...the deals for Airport terminal space will expire and get more expensive...etc...They will in effect become the Legacy carriers of the future WITH THE SAME PROBLEMS today’s carriers face.....the LCC's have to come up with a different plan for those days ahead, a plan that is much different than has ever been done before or they are in trouble as well...
IMHO, I believe all the CEO’s and BOD’s must form an alliance the industry has never seen before, one that keeps everyone in the black, and keeps prices in line with NORMAL inflation….every employee has the right to make a decent living, and have promises kept by their companies…it has to start with charging enough for the services you provide……
Boy if I were a CEO for a while….Hmmmmmm…what would you do???
I thought this might stir some positive comments, maybe some flamming, but lets try to make this civil....: JMHO here.
Col Bill USAF (ret)
You know many other industries have alliances with each other and still compete at the same time. Oil companies, Rx, many more...none of them are loosing money...
People will always fly, some will balk at increase fares...so.....we all balk at higher gas prices, taxes, a loaf of bread and a gallon of milk....so do we stop buying them because they went up on price NO......
The same applies for ALL the airlines....RAISE THE DARN FARES TO A PROFIETABLE LEVEL, The airlines need to form there own alliance to protect the fares....so what if the LCC don’t join...many people are sick and tried of the routine they must endure at a SWA or Airtran gate to get somewhere......If the airlines in this alliance were to go on a 1 month shut down, the LCCs could not carry all of them, the lines and over bookings would be terrible and they would plead for someone to do something to get more people back in the air...
AIR TRAVELERS NEED A WAKE-UP CALL..... EVERYONE RAISE THE PRICES
How is that this industry has not followed suit with everything else we buy everyday??? its got to stop, NOW stop taking form the employees, make the people pay the tab as they do everywhere else...
Auto gas prices went through the roof this summer, we complained and then went out and filled up the SUV so we could continue our life style.....
Comment by : 414flyer
Your advice would also be illegal too. If the airlines got together to coordinate raising of prices, government would also come down on them pretty hard and rightfully so. Price fixing and monopolies are not compatible with free market and competion.
I am sure if GM/Ford/Chrysler all announced one day there were acting in unison and upping the price of autos together, by a fixed amount, there would be a big outcry, even on here.
While thinking if the airlines just raised prices together would solve problems, and while it may in the short term, it still would not be a long term solution and would only put off the problems they are facing.
While I certainly do not want to see the legacy carriers go away, I also would not support a price cartel to prop them up either.
That would be a very bad road to go down too. can you imagine what would happen after that? Every company out there having problems would demand the same thing.
Reply by: RVSM410
414, please look at what you have said and then visit the local new car dealerships...."you make my point exactly"....in 1985 a new F-150 cost around $16,000 to buy new....loaded I might add, I bought one....I'm getting read to buy an new one and the same truck from the same plant is now $27,500.....
Look at all the new car types and its the same thing...they all have KEPT UP WITH INFLATION while competing on the open market......FURTHER WE ALL HAVE CONTINUIED TO BUY THEM BY THE BOAT LOADS!! Again you make my Original point very simple to see....all those assembly line workers are making darn good money......so should everyone in this industry!
I understand you cant set up an Monopoly, that by definition is illegal...but were not talking about one airline, I'm talking about EVERYONE, LEGACY, LCC, REGIONAL, no matter....
If you want to fly from A to B then it should cost a person about the same on anyone for the same level of service i.e. coach, biz or first class.....other services could be added as well for those that want more, or services removed for those that want less, but the base ticket from A to B costs this much..Period...just like that base model F-150....go to any ford dealer and you will pay about the same amount for that Base Model....
What’s the downside: will lets see, if legacy carriers continue to hemorrhage money to the point were they go out of business, don’t you think Uncle Sammy is going to step in and do something???
Of course Sammy already has, the ATSB was the first part of this action....So if the airlines WERE to form an Alliance, what would Uncle Sammy have to say in light of many bankruptcy proceedings to come? You have to operate at a loss, your shareholders are not entitled to make money, and the American people have a right to pay Wal-Mart fares???? NO, that argument would not hold water...but that is what is going on at the mainlines today....
Why are they letting this happen to them??? Competition from the LCC's....lets look at that one....the LCC's carried 28% of the total available seats last month...if the other legacy carriers or 72% were to stop flying next month...how would that 72% off travelers get to where they are going? the LCC's could not possibly handle it all, the public would be in total turmoil, the economy would go in the crapper. Uncle Sammy would have to step in... Like British Airways, or Amtrak, etc…
Would the LCC's like it, for the short term maybe, but if you stop and think about it...it would be a disaster...the LCC bean counters have projected the companies cost for many years in advance..they know that they WILL NOT BE AS COMPETITIVE in the FUTURE as they are now, their over-head will rise rapidly as the work force continues to gain seniority, the leased equipment will expire, or cost more...the deals for Airport terminal space will expire and get more expensive...etc...They will in effect become the Legacy carriers of the future WITH THE SAME PROBLEMS today’s carriers face.....the LCC's have to come up with a different plan for those days ahead, a plan that is much different than has ever been done before or they are in trouble as well...
IMHO, I believe all the CEO’s and BOD’s must form an alliance the industry has never seen before, one that keeps everyone in the black, and keeps prices in line with NORMAL inflation….every employee has the right to make a decent living, and have promises kept by their companies…it has to start with charging enough for the services you provide……
Boy if I were a CEO for a while….Hmmmmmm…what would you do???