Idealized situation arrival speeds

[GravityHater]

On average, of course the situation will change with aircraft, traffic, weather, controllers etc.
Busy Class C terminal area and you are arriving, everyone is on the ILS. I find they usually want you going pretty fast when able right up til the FAF. These are just 'average goals for most smaller, slower, lighter turbojets'.

Below 10K you are less than 250kts; I will write "240kts below 10"
240kts all the way to "cleared approach" unless you need less for configuration.
A few miles before intercepting the loc, (just as a beginnning suggestion), a speed that does not give an ordinary autopilot fits to capture the course; usually what... below 200kts??
FAF; the gear goes out so "gear speed minus 10 or so, at the FAF"
Inside the FAF, reducing from Vle to "vref + 10" or so.
Over the fence; Vref.

I realize many companies dictate a stabilized approach and one speed inside the FAF but this is meant for an airplane/situation that is slightly more flexible.

Never seen a written recommendation in a text or received one in training so I thought, why not try to come up with one?

Thanks.

 

[gkrangers]

I dunno...I have to say to go with what you and the airplane and the current air traffic situation are comfortable with.

Being a 172 driver mostly I prefer to fly as fast as possible down the ILS (100-110 knots) and get it slowed down approaching the DH, to be able to make normal maneuvers for landing.

I'm sure ATC prefers the smaller aircraft, like a 172 doing 100+ down the ILS, instead of 85 or 90.

I got Tampa Intl to give me an ILS in the middle of the day once, and in so many words it was "Fine, cleared ILS, but haul ass please, the 737 and DC9 behind you aren't going around."

 

[minitour]

I know I'm going to catch hell for this, but:

I like one speed down final. This way my GS is constant (as constant as it will be) so I can time from the FAF in case the GS goes TU on me.

ATC be darned...if the best I can give you is 90 (and I'll usually give you 100 - talking 172 - so long as I can get the first 10-degrees of flaps in) then that's it. If I can give you more, I'll be glad to help. Visual approach or if I know I'm going to break out in 100 feet (MVA is high but so are cielings) then yeah, I'll go clean to the runway and cut the power and toss out flaps around DH.

In the end, I'd love to help you because of the DC9, 737 and E145 you have behind me, but my concern is flying my plane safely to the runway...I'll do what I can.

IMHO

-mini

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Generally speaking ATC will only give you a speed til the FAF, then it is what ever you need to operate for your particular airplane. (Ex. 170 kts to the marker)

Most of the time at large airports you are down to 190 to 210 or so by the time you intercept the localizer. Obviously if the airplane cannot go that fast allowances are made for spacing.

Of course this varies widely depending on the situation, but I would say the above numbers are the norm for the U.S.

Overseas depending on the country you may still be at 310 kts at 4000 feet, they do not operate with the absolute 250 under 10 rule, it varies from country to country and also by day, depending on what ATC wants. FL80, or FL 60 is not an uncommon altitude assignment (29.92 transition altitude is not set in stone either, hence the Flight Level assignments) Very important to brief transition altitudes (ie. 29.92) you may see several different ones in a day.

 

[GravityHater]

Paucity of dispute suggests the concepts I presented are reasonable?
Thanks!

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

A few miles before intercepting the loc, (just as a beginnning suggestion), a speed that does not give an ordinary autopilot fits to capture the course; usually what... below 200kts??
FAF; the gear goes out so "gear speed minus 10 or so, at the FAF"
Inside the FAF, reducing from Vle to "vref + 10" or so.
Over the fence; Vref.

I realize many companies dictate a stabilized approach and one speed inside the FAF but this is meant for an airplane/situation that is slightly more flexible.

Never seen a written recommendation in a text or received one in training so I thought, why not try to come up with one?

Thanks.

To be more precise, stabilized approach is actually an FAA mandate. So in a perfect world on an ILS you will be somewhere around 190 to 210 until 2 to 5 miles from the FAF (FAF being basically glideslope intercept) at one dot below glideslope intercept the gear comes out, and at intercept or just before the final flaps come out, then it is ref plus wind correction the rest of the way. Visual approaches normally must be stabilized by 1000 feet AGL. Non precision is the same except you are in landing config and speed 1 to 2 miles prior to final decent.

In a swept wing jet most work on a 3 to 1 decent ratio, meaning that at 30 miles out and clean you need to be 10k above the airport or less to make it. Some do better, but it is a rule of thumb that works in almost all of them. For instance if you are 15 miles out at 10k feet(straight in), or you are 2 from the FAF at 250 kts you have probably already missed the airport.

Most transport catagory jets need a minimum of 110 to 120 kts even in full landing configuration, a 747 or other large jet may be at min speed as high as 160 kts or so if real heavy, so that is the reason that ATC doesn't like to see light airplanes "needing" 90 kts inside the FAF on a 10000 foot runway.