I was right again

[rajflyboy]

I predicted a very unhappy pilot group after the 2015 CBA

I was called an idiot, clueless, etc. Pilots were told to leave if they didn’t like it. (They are). We were told over and over this is the best and final offer. (75% fell for this sh#t)

For some stupid reason 75 percent of the pilots voted yes for this nonsense (now many that voted yes are complaining). (And now you can’t find anyone who voted yes)

Several union folks who pushed this CBA have moved on to better jobs.

What a darn mess (just as I predicted)

You folks should listen to Uncle Jerry when he speaks. Vote no once in a while.

I hate it it when I’m right AGAIN

- - - Updated - - -

:laugh:

 

[merrill]

I so understand you..

 

[rajflyboy]

We need more like you on board

 

[Seahawk]

We need more like you on board

On board with what? You and others on here want to be some sort of prediction Goo- rues, ejaculating your special green spewage of fake news. Again and again I say, "You are more reptile then man!"

 

[rajflyboy]

Fake news?

you mean the folks who said “this is the last and final offer”?
or the folks that said “Company is goin broke if we don’t sign this?

:smash:

 

[Seahawk]

Fake news?

you mean the folks who said “this is the last and final offer”?
or the folks that said “Company is goin broke if we don’t sign this?


Raj on !

 

[rajflyboy]

Baghdad Bob was the king of fake news

 

[Seahawk]

Very good man...your catching on, Raj on !

 

[rajflyboy]

No worries

only another 6 years before the contract comes due

 

[realityman]

I'm not sure what you're talking about. The pilot group, by and large, is fine. The NJASAP message boards aren't necessarily reflective of the pilot group at large.

Are people leaving in ever increasing numbers? You bet! And why wouldn't they? If you're relatively young (under 50), an F/O or even a junior captain, the opportunities for making more and having a better QOL are better outside of Netjets. I don't think there's any argument there.

However, are they necessarily unhappy with our CBA? Or even the job? Most I speak with would certainly like to see improvements, but they aren't unhappy.

Maybe the better question is, are they unhappy with the company (ie: management)? That's an entirely different question and response.

You seem to be of the opinion that a better CBA would translate into things being better. Here is where I would disagree with you. A management team hell bent on making us miserable will do so even with a better CBA. There are ALWAYS ways for them to accomplish that. Just look at the airlines. UPS pilots certainly do better than us, yet if you talk to them they are the most miserable group of pilots around. They hate their management team whom they're always fighting with, and don't seem to like the job much either. And pretty much every airline group seems pretty miserable when contract time comes around. The list of gripes from a supposedly happy group is pretty dang long.

Has nothing to do with their CBA and everything to do with how management treats them.

And then there's the fact that pilots, as a general rule, will always find something to complain about. Reference the renewed ferry flight policy on our own boards. Management brought this nice little perk back. You can ride on our ferrying aircraft, bring your parents (and in-laws), your spouse and/or your kids. And many are posting their successful experiences and the good times they're having with it. Yet there are others who are complaining they can't bring their ex-wife's kid's soccer coach on these flights. It's terrible, TERRIBLE! they'll tell you! Management is being so awful with this!

I'm not saying the ferry policy makes our CBA great. I'm just using it and an example that pilots live up to the old joke about making a million dollars a year and only having to work Wednesdays and complaining "Yeah, but EVERY Wednesday?!".

Additionally, there are economic realities that the biggest complainers and "prognosticators" simply don't want to acknowledge. One example: Most everyone agrees we should have gotten better compensation. Okay fine. Personally, I'm all for making more money and having better retirement. Bring it on! But another big complaint is QOL, and rightfully so. Trouble is, many if not most people screaming loudest about it aren't looking at what they're asking for. A lot of people are comparing our scheduling to the airlines (clearly, ours isn't viewed favorably). Airline pilots only work 10-12 days a month, and rarely have days that exceed 8-9 hours let alone going to 14 hours. However, has anyone bothered to look at the airline crewing ratios? Most airlines have a ratio of 12 pilots per plane (at least! Some have more!). Netjets is currently at 5.8 pilots per plane. So, in order to have the scheduling lives that they do at the airlines, we'd pretty much need the same crewing ratio. That means we'd need to DOUBLE the number of pilots working here. Even if that could be accomplished quickly, has anyone looked at what that would cost the company? It's hundreds of millions of dollars (salaries and benefits included). So now we've solved (hopefully) the QOL issues. But how much does that leave for the big raises and far better retirement we want?

Oh, they can just raise prices to our clients. Sure. The dream that a company, which is already 30-40% more expensive than most other alternatives, can just pump up prices another 10-15%. Got it. The rich don't care, right?

I don't think people here are as unhappy as you say. Okay, not as unhappy with the CBA as you say. Unhappy with company management? Yes, definitely. By the way, one other factor in play with CBA discontent may be knowledge of it (lack of) coupled with spine to use it. I've found that many people unhappy with the CBA haven't actually read it, or understand it, so aren't using what's in there to make things better for themselves. And too many people complaining of being tired simply lack the spine to call in fatigued, a very well known provision in our CBA that no one has EVER been disciplined for using. How many understand the standby time rules? They're not that hard if you go over it for a few minutes. Lots of stuff in there too many people don't bother to educate themselves on.

You predicted people would be unhappy with the 2015 CBA? Yeah, okay. Pilots unhappy with their CBA. That was probably pretty tough to predict. Okay, I predict Delta pilots will all suddenly be unhappy with their CBA when it's time for their next round of negotiations. Pilots finding faults with their CBA is about as hard to predict as the sun coming up each day.