How's This for a Horror Story??

[SammyG]

So I had my IFR checkride schedules for this morning. Examiner gets to the airport. He starts doing the standard checks, counting my hours from my log book, making sure I have fulfilled all the requirements.

Come to realize, I had counted my dual X-Countries from my PPL training as PIC -country, which "allegedly" don't really count, leaving me about 6 hours short on the PIC Xcountry requirement.

So, after feeling like the stupidest pilot in the building, the examiner told me don't worry about it, just give 'em a call when I do the last 6. Which was reallly gracious of the guy, especially after I made him come all the way out for nothing.

Now, after this debacle I dove into my Reg book to make sure I hadn't screwed up any other of my hours that I had logged. And I came across this one, under "Pilot Logbooks", FAR 61.51, (e) (4): "A student pilot may log pilot-in-command time only when the student pilot-

(i) Is the sole occupant of the aircraft or is performing dites of pilot in command of an airship requiring more than one crewmember

(ii) Has a current solo flight endoresment as required under 61.87 of this part; and

(iii) Is undergoing training for a pilot certificate or rating.

Now, I'm sure people have made this argument before me. So I shall set myself to get shot down.

Isn't receiving dual during a cross country considered "undergoing training for a pilot certificate"....even though the student does not "have the final authority and responisibilty for the operation and safety of the flight" ?????

If not, then how come a safety pilot can log the whole flight as PIC....even though he is not "the sole manipulator of the controls"?

Thank you.

 

[172driver]

Isn't receiving dual during a cross country considered "undergoing training for a pilot certificate"....even though the student does not "have the final authority and responisibilty for the operation and safety of the flight" ?????

Yes, dual is definitely training. However, to log PIC as a student pilot, you must meet all three of the conditions you stated above. When receiving dual, you are obviously not the sole occupant of the aircraft, thus you may not log PIC.

The rules for certificated pilots (not students) are a little different and are covered in 61.51(e). A safety pilot may log PIC because the operation of the aircraft requires two pilots.

By the way, you may also log PIC during a dual x/c with your CFI after receiving the private certificate.

 

[labbats]

You only get to log PIC on dual given after you get your private liscence. So if you have single engine land, you get PIC the whole time you train for instrument and commercial provided it's in a single engine land airplane. On multiengine training, you don't get to log PIC unless you solo or get your certificate. Same story.

I think it's admirable you looked it up in the regs. But those checkpilots know their stuff. He could have explained it to you better than we can type it out. Give him a call if this doesn't make it less foggy.

Best of luck