How's an AE newhire supposed to make it?

[Sol Rosenberg]

The general census seems to be that American Eagle newhires will be on one of the turboprops and for the most part be based in San Juan or Miami. How are newhires supposed to make ends meet only making not even 20K the first year? A crashpad could cost nearly 1/3rd of your months income!!

I live in Ft. Worth and of course want to be based out of DFW, but I've heard it can take quite awhile to get DFW.
I have a family, with an average amount of bills. I guess my question is how is a newhire supposed to make it when the salary AE is paying will barely cover existing bills, much less a crashpad in SJU or MIA?

Does anybody know how hard it is to commute from DFW to either one of these two newhire bases? I've been told that sometimes the lines are structured so that you only get two or three days off maximum in a row, which makes it almost impossible to make it to DFW and have any quality of life before it's time to head back.
Any insight?? Thanks in advance...

Sol

 

[General Lee]

Play the BIG LOTTO. No, really you must take a small hit at first, but maybe you should try to get a home equity line of credit to give you some needed cash. (If you own a home) Then, I would suggest if possible for your spouse to get some sort of part time job----and it will be tough if you have kids and they need daycare. I would choose MIA over SJU if you can, since it may be easier to jumpseat to DFW from there with more choices. It will be tough that first year, but it will slowly get better and you will have more options with some seniority. Good luck.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[sleepy]

I suggest that you find a better job that pays you enough money to live.

My first year at ASA I think I made around $18K. How did I make it? My wife makes a lot of money.

 

[Sol Rosenberg]

yes general lee I would much prefer MIA over SJU anyday....I flew to SJU with my previous airline...It's a great place to visit, but you don't want to live there.

 

[mesaba2425]

I thought Mesaba was the only company that didn't pay their pilots much. Hmm.....

 

[climbhappy]

how am i suppose to live?

i couldn't have made this past year as a colgan capt (made 26000) without a huge tax refund and a part time job. many at the commuters must supplement income somehow or have rich family, smart working wives( the hooters chicks don't qualify here, I'm talking lawyer,banker, broker,doctor, well, dancer too if she's good)

also, learn to love ramen noodles.

 

[Captain X]

The general census seems to be that American Eagle newhires will be on one of the turboprops and for the most part be based in San Juan or Miami. How are newhires supposed to make ends meet only making not even 20K the first year? A crashpad could cost nearly 1/3rd of your months income!!

I live in Ft. Worth and of course want to be based out of DFW, but I've heard it can take quite awhile to get DFW.
I have a family, with an average amount of bills. I guess my question is how is a newhire supposed to make it when the salary AE is paying will barely cover existing bills, much less a crashpad in SJU or MIA?

Does anybody know how hard it is to commute from DFW to either one of these two newhire bases? I've been told that sometimes the lines are structured so that you only get two or three days off maximum in a row, which makes it almost impossible to make it to DFW and have any quality of life before it's time to head back.
Any insight?? Thanks in advance...

Sol

Not busting on you specifically Sol but what you are talking about will never end as long as there are thousands of eager people who will do anything to fly professionally.

Until ALL pilots from student thru ATP are committed to not "underselling" this profession...it will continue.

As long as every single aviation magazine is filled with beapilot.com ads, and adds for all the different "from private to the right seat of an airliner in only 350 hours" acadamies...it will continue.

ALPA has recently created a new "Task Force" that has the sole job of going to university career fairs, etc to help educate pilots about the profession but it's effectiveness is yet to be told and, if you ask me, it's about 10 years late in the making.

 

[WhiteCloud]

Why take the job if the pay and benefits are unsatisfactory? The only reason to accept a job like that is to get somewhere else higher up on the food chain. Use your AE experience to your benefit and then drop them (as they would you) the second you get something better and don't need them anymore.

 

[Sol Rosenberg]

Re: Re: How's an AE newhire supposed to make it?

Not busting on you specifically Sol but what you are talking about will never end as long as there are thousands of eager people who will do anything to fly professionally.

Until ALL pilots from student thru ATP are committed to not "underselling" this profession...it will continue.

I agree with you CaptainX. Before 911, I flew 727's for a 121 carrier and received very competitive wages. Since I was laid off after 911, I've had several opportunities to fly for some pretty crummy outfits that pay little to nothing. I turned them down in an attempt not to undersell the profession. Sure, I'd like to be flying; that's what I do. Generally speaking, I think it's our own fault that the Regionals get away with paying such low wages. As long as these 20 year old eager beavers with 1000 hours are willing to whore themselves out just to get their foot in the door, the Regionals will continue to pay what they do.
Us as a pilot group could turn the industry around and force the Regionals pay us pilots our real worth. We could start by refusing to go to work and simply not interview with them until they improve the working conditions and raise the wages to an acceptable level. Unfortunately, I doubt that will ever happen thanks to all the eager low time pilots, the scabs and the "company" guys who have their heads permanently implanted in managements a$$.

 

[chuychanga]

I am uninformed as I do not work for a regional, but don't they all pay about $20/hour for the first year? I just looked up ASA and see that to be the case. Isn't Eagle about the same?

I was under the impression that Comair, Air Wisc, and Skywest were about the only regionals that pay more than $20/hour first year.

I always read people bashing Eagle and Mesa, but do they really earn that much less than the others like ASA, Expres Jet, etc...?

This isn't a flame, I know I'm uninformed on the intricacies of each regionals payscale. I'm just looking for answers.

 

[Sol Rosenberg]

Yes you're right chuy, most of 'em pay about 20/hr the first year. Even the majors pay $hitty the first year, but at least you have the promise of making over 70-80 thousand after the first year or so. You'll be lucky to break 40-50 thousand at some of the regionals after several years of service, if at all. Like I said in my earlier post, it's really the pilots fault. As long as we accept that job offer being fully aware of the low wages, that in a sense is us saying "Yes, those wages are acceptable".

 

[labbats]

You have a valid point until you factor in my full time CFI wages in 2003 add up to about $7000.
Suddenly $20,000 seems like a lot.

As to your original question, how does anyone afford any of this?

 

[English]

Marry well.

 

[80drvr]

You have a valid point until you factor in my full time CFI wages in 2003 add up to about $7000.
Suddenly $20,000 seems like a lot.

As to your original question, how does anyone afford any of this?

I agree that the pay at the regionals is unsat. Have any of you considered the military option? An Ensign or 2LT now pays about $46K (varies a bit w/ housing allowance) to start with 1/3 of that being tax free. This increases with promotion and step raises to ~100k by the time you're commitment is up. This doesn't include the bonus which varies by service.

 

[Flyairjason]

C-mon, Labbats!

Guys,
Herein lies part of the problem... The fact that Labbats is only making $7000.00 leads me to believe that he/she is NOT being the smartest CFI he/she can be... I don't mean to suggest such elementary remedies, as I know that you're not TRYING to earn jackdookie, but perhaps a flight school with higher volume is in order (unless you just live in a tiny town). Is the owner of the flight school you're flying for taking more than his fair share of your hourly yield? Are you billing students when they flake on you and waste your time? Billing when they're late and wasting your time? Billing for groundschool, brief and debrief?
The point is fellas, our profession requires a tremendous amount of specialized training, and even college degrees. We ought not initiate the poverty once we get our first CFI gig, that's why Labbats said what he said... $20,000.00 IS a ton of cash compared to $7,000.00... And, as long as that's the case (and I think we've pretty much covered this...), guys with low time will always undermine the rest of us who're trying to make a living.
Guys, be smarter business people, not just great pilots... Don't take a CFI gig that pays you $8.00 an hour, or somehow compensates you with more single engine flight time instead of overtime (like if you also have to wash airplanes or work their dispatch desk). Don't take abuse from any sort of management, airline or flight school, as this also undermines your colleagues.
I once had a flight school owner tell me that they were doing me a favor by letting me work there... Yeah, right. The next day, I walked and it became real clear who was doing the service, and for whom.
I know that I ramble, so I'll wrap it up... Be proud of what you've accomplished and don't ever let someone screw you out of the benefits that should accompany your achievements. If you do, not only are you taking food out of your family's mouths, but you'll hose you brothers as well.
Oh, yeah, one more thing... Don't ever fly a broken airplane. It'll never be worth that.
fly smart, mi amigos
Jason

 

[WhiteCloud]

Re: C-mon, Labbats!

The fact that Labbats is only making $7000.00 leads me to believe that he/she is NOT being the smartest CFI he/she can be...

Just like other pilot's, CFI's don't always have control over pay issues. They can only hurt themselves by walking out in today's market and it isn't going to change the industry if they aren't there. Best to at least get the time in you need (1500hrs?) then move on.

 

[Flyairjason]

It's a matter of choices.

If you believe that walking out on a substandard quality of life and trying to make things better is only going to hurt you, then you will always make $7,000.00 per year (figuratively speaking of course). If you're going to suck it up, then go for it... But don't expect things to change, because you're only ensuring the perpetuality of the lifestyle. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that the point of this thread?
Whitecloud, are you suggesting that our profession should just continue to take it deep because it's a means to an end? Don't think for a minute that I'm suggesting that a guy should walk everytime it gets rough-I'm not. But know that everytime you sell out or somehow compromise the integrity of our lives and professions, it will happen again and again. That's why I made $13,000.00 my first year at Colgan, and part of the reason I left that operation.
Regards fellas,
Jason

 

[eglcrjfo]

Unfortunately you're gonna have to figure out how bad you wanna do this. This industry is not for the faint of heart. I've been at Eagle for 4 years and things are slowly starting to break loose. SJU (San Juan) is an easy commute. There's 3 nonstops out of DFW daily. Miami is tougher. A lot of commuters live in Miami. For other airlines look at their flight schedules for their bases. All the regioanals have pretty much the same starting pay. When I hired on in 99' people were getting off the rock (SJU) pretty quick (6-8 months) but I think those days are over. Where ever you go it's not gonna be easy.

God bless...

 

[WorldSeries]

i have an idea, you take a card board box cut it into a square and then make a sign out of it and as the passengers get off the plane at thier destination you stand by the exit door and hold the sign that says " Thanks for flying on us, I hope to see you on a future flight and tips are appreciated, I will only make 17k this year, thanks have a great day"

and yes we pilots choose to accept a low paying job, but dont we low paided still tip everyone else?? Hotel van driver, hotel waitress, cab drivers etc..they all choose low paying job too but they expect a tip for thier service so we should start expecting a tip for our service since we are basically doing it free for the 1st few years !!!!!!!!..