How WE Can Make The "Regional's" Better

[smokey999]

Attention All Regional Pilot's- Please read this and disagree, agree, say "here we go again", bash Mesa, correct my spelling or grammar, whatever just do something. Whining and b1tching and pissing contests are good it make other people aware!!

I know this will seem redundant to most, but what is it we are really looking for? This will probably vary quite a bit, but I would think the two biggest things would be:
1. Use the regional's to get to the major's.
2. Improve the pay and quality of life at the regional's.
Now we know the first of these is looking more and more unlikely, but by working on number two, we may actually make number one more likely.
We all need to realize that we, regional pilots, as a collective whole, have caused most problems. And we can solve them.
Heres how.

Keep whining and b1tching, but make sure you network more than just here. Really work on getting out there, and direct other pilots to his board, so they can be educated.

Get involved with ALPA, know your contract and actually do something about it, next time you have the chance. I read another post regarding this, and there were some excellent points regarding the lack of knowledge that most pilots have about what they can do.

By the time it comes to sign the next contract hopefully everyone is educated enough to make a stand. Slowly then, thing will get better. All it takes is one.

To recap:
Respond to this post, negetive or positive.
Learn your contract, and get involved .
Network and unite.
Sign better contract.
Enjoy better QOL.

Simple right?

 

[AssumedName]

It WILL NEVER Happen

Sorry to break it to you all, as long as we "love to Fly" Owners will continue to holdback on pay and bennies. No union in the world is going to help, not even ALPA. (specialy ALPA, ex-TWA/AA and others)

If i say i'm not going to fly for nothing, someone else will.

I'm recommending newbies to go to school, spend the 50 grand on an education not involving a "good hobby", and get a good enough job that you can afford to fly for fun.

Have a good one, and get help for that depression, before it tears you and your loved ones apart. (not directed at the original poster, just advice to everyone.)

But then again....Who am I?

 

[46Driver]

I've said it before and I will say it again. If you want to have an effect on the regionals, you need to change the hiring practices at the majors. As long as majors require more and more PIC turbine time, then pilots at the regionals will accept paycuts and work rules degradations in exchange for growth. Growth brings more airplanes, upgrades to captain and thus a chance to escape. If you could get the majors to accept FO time (surely a few thousand hours in an RJ would be acceptable and show that you know what you are doing), then pilots at a regional would not be so desperate to get to the left seat.

An extreme example is the thread on Southwest a few months back. One USAir guy was trying to apply and had 12,000+ hours with over 5000 hours in a 737 - but did not have the 1000 PIC turbine time to get hired there. No, it does not make any sense.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

1000 pic turbine

In the mid-90s that was the case. Only a few airlines, Southwest and FedEx, required the 1000 PIC turbine.

There were hundreds of F/Os being hired at the majors, especially those F/Os who went to an intermediate "stepping stone" such as AirTran, Spirit, etc...

A lot of us (yes, present company included) never quite reached the 1000 PIC turbine and after being furloughed from our respective majors found ourselves in an entirely different hiring environment than what we faced in the early/mid 90s. All of the sudden the 1000 PIC turbine requirement had come out of nowhere and here we were all of the sudden unqualified.

So (shrug) what's a pilot to do? Start over again. Back to the right seat at a "regional" but this time with a decision to make. Is it really worth all of the hassle of racing the left seat (5-7 years), busting your hump trying to finally get a couple of thousand hours PIC turbine (in order to be competitive) only to be discounted during a major airline interview because suddenly you have 10,000 - 15,000 total time and only 1500 pic turbine and the interviewer wonders whats wrong with you?

Probably not. I'll just stick it out here in the RJ until THIS company kicks the bucket, then i'll go back to college and try and get a real job. I don't particularly miss the Boeing, but I sure do miss the paycheck!

Being an F/O is pretty easy -- even being a high-time F/O isn't that bad. Just have to follow a few simple rules.

1. Don't laugh (out loud) when the Captain uses the speedbrakes as a crutch.

2. Don't question decisions that don't impact safety. (cooperate and graduate)

3. Repeat after me, "Gear up, Clear right, I'll take the fat one".

Piece of cake.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

46Driver,

Your response is to change the free market forces. It may be easier to control the weather.

Passengers are only going to pay so much for a ticket and we have to get our share from that ticket price, after the gov't has taken its share for taxes and security, the company for it's cost (including labor). There is only so much for us.....

We pilots say we should be paid more, everyone says heck yeah, but...here comes the tricky part....the process. Most pilots don't understand the process...so how can you expect them to support the effort if they don't even know how it works. I want my money and I want it now!!

Pilots, get off your Xbox, the golf course or your girlfriend, get educated and choose!! The first step in making ALPA more effective for the regionals and making the regionals a better place to work is to get involved!

Don't change your union, change your leadership! Attend LEC meetings, send emails, fill out forms, etc....

Look in the mirror.

(Now I sound like an idealistic activist!) Yeah Baby!!

 

[46Driver]

The hiring committee doesn't have anything to do with free market forces - they can hire whomever they please. By the majors continuingly raising the standards, they unknowingly force the regional pilots to fight for growth, thus lower costs & contracts, which in turn increases the cost differential between the majors and the regionals - its a vicious cycle - and one that is preventable by the majors.

PS: I'll quit flying and get a real job before I take the fat one - a man's gotta have limitations.

 

[smokey999]

Good post Rez O. Thanks for supplying a reasonable, and attainable solution to the problem. I'm all for getting the Majors to lower their mins. Just how do we do that again? Not very realistic.

I know what the faults of the system are, lets work on realistic ways to remidy it, it may actually take work and dedication and sacrafice!

 

[RichO]

Yeah, but growth at the regionals mean just the opposite at the majors....that is the problem, we all think that if we're growning that the majors are just around the corner............well I hate to burst your bubble, but more we grow, the less that management will rely on mainline and we'll find ourselves stretching the range of the RJ................people say that, "well consumers aren't willing to pay more.........." well think about this, consumers still need to travel, and if the bar was raised by all the airlines to a step above, consumers would have to pay more.......sorta like gas..............it is needed, so we pay it.............

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Bingo!

In 1995 (when RJs were still new to the scene) the majors filled the long-thin segments with their own narrowbody aircraft.

The regionals were still, with few exceptions, feeders -- using Dash 8s, Jetstreams, and Saab 340s to bring customers to the hubs where they would connect with their major airline partners.

Fast forward to today and now we have 50, 70, even 90 seat "regional jets" which are major airlines in their own right. They still feed their major airline partners, but more and more airline customers may fly across the country and connect onto yet another "regional jet". The more RJs appear on the scene, and the bigger these airplanes get, the fewer jobs are available at the traditional mainline carriers.

In the mid 90's when everyone was hiring like gangbusters most of the major had their own quasi-"regional jet" product. DC9-30s, DC9-10s, Fokker 100s, Fokker 28s, etc...

When those products disappear, suddenly replaced by the new breed of super-regionals, what need will there be for the traditional majors to hire? We've fallen into a management trap here and unwillingly (perhaps unknowingly) forced the bar lower in our own industry as we each scrambled to build the qualifications that we perceived to be necessary to move to the majors.

The only solution? ALPA's going to have to figure out a way to bridge the gap. Bring everyone back into the family on a single seniority list and prevent the "portfolio concept" from further diluting the bargaining power at the regionals.

Today with regionals engaged in 6-way whipsaws bargaining power is virtually zero. What negotiating capital do you have when Chautauqua or Mesa can take delivery of 4 airplanes a month and replace your flying almost instantaneously?

 

[KingAirKiddo]

I agree, Furloughed Again. I think that our largest challenge for contract '06 at "Podunk" will be in obtaining some sort of brand scope protections against the contract carrier whipsaw. ALPA needs to step up to the plate quickly.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

KingAir,

Easier said than done since ALPA also represents the mac-daddy of contract regionals: Mesa.

The conflict of interest rears its ugly head yet again.

 

[another cfii]

Isn't it ironic that the RJ spells the demise of the regional airlines industry?

Pilots want to get a piece of the RJ, cuz of the PIC jet time, and major likes it because of cheap cost, but in turn, we the pilots, get screwed cuz we all think the more jet time we have, the ellusive dream of flying for major is one step closer. For more than a few of us, the RJ may be the largest thing we'll ever fly.

I think the airline industry is just like any others industries, supply and demand. As long as the demand of commercial aviation doesn't increase, management always win, it's as simple as that. That's just my 2 cents.

 

[THE GRX]

Give it ten years and Jonny O and other mgmt type will outsource our jobs to south of the border or take a page from Dell and ship pilots from India. Thye will gladly do our job for 10 bucks and hour and a cold sandwich.

It is all about the balance sheet.

 

[vmc-hound]

Give it ten years and Jonny O and other mgmt type will outsource our jobs to south of the border or take a page from Dell and ship pilots from India. Thye will gladly do our job for 10 bucks and hour and a cold sandwich.

It is all about the balance sheet.

that is a BIG BIG fear of mine..

 

[DirkkDiggler]

How do we make the regionals better?

STOP ALL YOUR BITCHING. I'VE NEVER HEARD A GROUP OF PEOPLE SO EAGER TO BAD MOUTH PEOPLE AND GENERALLY TALK SH1T IN ALL MY LIFE! GET OVER IT!

 

[porra]

DirkkDiggler;
You must be one of those PFT pilots with lots of hours and are content with whatever is given to them...
Get a life

 

[DirkkDiggler]

GROW UP!

 

[GogglesPisano]

My 2 cents:

ALPA needs to act like a national union, not a "lose affiliation of locals." Set a bar and stick to it. Do not allow any regional MEC negotiating committee to agree to any lowering of the bar.

The problem at the regionals is the fact that some people work for "career" regionals with decent pay and benefits (ACA, Comair, ASA, Skywest ...) but are competing in the same market with "stepping stone" regionals (I would list them here but we all know who they are.)

In a sense, the guy with a house and a family has to compete with some 22-year-old who doesn't care about anything but getting his 1,000 hours of PIC. (Breaking news: Just because you obtain 1,000 hours does not mean SWA or JB will be knocking on your door -- THE ODDS ARE OVERWHELMINGLY AGAINST YOU.)

And that is where we stand.

 

[porra]

GogglesPisano;
That would be the perfect plan, and that would make life so much easier for all of us. Unfortunately we will never be that way.