How to deal with this student

[BoDEAN]

I have a student, who is 80yrs old. He started flying about 2 yrs ago. He has gone through 3 instructors, me being the third. He expressed concern today that he has spent over $8,000 so far, and is bothered that I am requiring to go up with him to see stalls/slow flight/emergency stuff before I sign him off solo. He has done 1 solo day xcountry with the old instructor. I want to see him make it through the private, but don't like when he is expressing concern (I completely understand why he would).

Any tips?

 

[Jedi_Cheese]

I would recomend you stand your ground. If he knows his stuff, getting a signoff is 3-5 flights at most (I went flying 3 times before I got a solo signoff at another airport after moving). If he is flying well and is doing proper techniques, you probibly don't need to have him do a maneuver multiple times as long as he does them well. DO NOT LOWER YOUR STANDARDS!

Make it clear to him that you need to be assured that he can complete the tasks that are required to sign him off. If he can complete the tasks, then you will let him go onto the next phase.

Is this your first flight and he is pressuring you to sign him off? Is he doing well or are you noticing a whole lot of weaknesses in his flying? Can you get ahold of his previous instructors and trade notes at all?

 

[pilotman2105]

I have a student, who is 80yrs old. He started flying about 2 yrs ago. He has gone through 3 instructors, me being the third. He expressed concern today that he has spent over $8,000 so far, and is bothered that I am requiring to go up with him to see stalls/slow flight/emergency stuff before I sign him off solo. He has done 1 solo day xcountry with the old instructor. I want to see him make it through the private, but don't like when he is expressing concern (I completely understand why he would).

Any tips?

I do not have much experience with the actual teaching of students, but I can offer an option that I think may work. Explain to him that if you're going to sign him off for solo or otherwise, you're required to know that he can perform to the level necessary to be safe (and ultimately pass the test (PTS)). Then explain that if you two go up and he performs within or close to standards right away, it will take him less than 30 min to go through stalls/slow flight/emergency procedures. Tell him that if he does well, you'll sign him off and continue on with the training. If not, then there's more dual involved until he performs satisfactorily.

Just be clear as to what the standards are and that you're required to cover your a$$ before signing him off.

Let me know how it ultimately turns out...

 

[EDUC8-or]

I would give him the sign off for Bravo... at night....

All kidding aside, you need to stand your ground with this guy. The students I've had that would pressure me to solo are usually the ones who aren't ready. It's often the somewhat reluctant ones who are better prepared.

 

[plunger]

tell him that in this situation, you give your students one of two choices. either they go up with you for the checkride, or they have to run around the fbo three times naked with their arms out yelling "i can fly like birdies". urge him to go wtih choice number two. it's not often in your instucting career will you see an 80yr old do this. sieze the opportunity!

 

[BoDEAN]

The guy is 80yrs old. I am not joking. Very nice, and this is a solo endorsement, not for a checkride. I've flown with him twice.

 

[labbats]

Ask him why he wants to learn to fly at age 80. Really get to know him and his goals. Then talk him out of them.

 

[BoDEAN]

He flew in WW2.
When he got older, his grandchildren gave him some money and wanted him t olearn to fly again, to complete his dream again.

 

[bobbysamd]

Stand your ground

I would recomend you stand your ground.

Thirded (?). The gentleman is riding on your endorsements and, ultimately, your tickets. That is the bottom line. You are responsible for his safety. You are the one who determines if he's safe. If he's not happy with that, it will be time for his fourth instructor.

 

[fulcrum]

think Hard and Go with your gut

Dont let anybody push you around -- Or Put you on a guilt trip

 

[Ralgha]

You don't owe anything to anyone.

With regards to endorsements.

 

[BoDEAN]

Ok.

Just feel bad that his 2 previous instructors left, and left him hanging. I'll talk to him.

 

[pilotman2105]

Ok.

Just feel bad that his 2 previous instructors left, and left him hanging. I'll talk to him.

As bad as you feel, it isn't your fault or problem. In an ideal world, if that had happened, he would have a few extra hours (3-5). Unfortunately it sounds like this guy has had to start at square one with each new instructor. Just make it a quick (but thorough) review and if he's doing well, pick up from where he left off with the previous instructor.

 

[350DRIVER]

I surely would put him through the ringer and test his ability, skills, knowledge, etc, prior to signing him off just like you would do to all others. It does not matter if this guy is 30 or 80, he still needs to be within standards to obtain a sign off from a CFI. The FAR's do not give any breaks in what is "required" due to a person's age, color, race, etc prior to a sign off. I would assume he is in relatively good health since he has to have atleast a third class medical that is required for solo flight so this probably would ease some concerns if it were me BUT do not allow him to dictate when/where it is time for the solo/checkride. Your tickets are on the line so be wise and be picky. If you do not like the way that he flies the aircraft then by all means do not sign him off, however if he operates the aircraft safely and he is proficient then don't allow his "age" to be the dictating factor to stop you from signing this person off.


I have trained and flown with a few pilots in their mid to late 70's and they did just fine and passed the ride on the first attempt. One of my former students who sticks out in my mind the most was a retired electrical engineer who owned his own aircraft, was in his late 70's, and had been working on his INST. for a few years and no one would sign him off? Why? Good question but I would assume a few were turned away and concerned about this person's age and health. I was able to get him signed off in less than a few months once he was within PTS and when I felt "comfortable" within him and I had not a doubt in my mind that he would be a safe instrument pilot. This person now is in his mid 80's and he still does fly quite often and we keep in touch somewhat.


Be smart, take your time, and when you feel "comfortable" is when the signoff should happen. Whether the guy is 30 or 80 does not matter, he still needs to meet the same reqts.

good luck,

3 5 0

 

[SDCFI]

61.195 says that an instructor cannot endorse a student for solo unless they have "Given that student the flight training required for solo flight privileges required by this part". So even though this gentleman has been previously endorsed by other instructors you are still legally required to cover those pre-solo flt items. I would simply explain this to him, there's nothing you can do about it. I had one of the owners of the flt school I worked at try to get me to sign off another instructor's student after just a flt in the pattern because their 90 day had expired. I said nope, legally I wouldn't be covered. Do what you need to CYA, unforunately sometimes this screws the student.

 

[FlySacto]

Hang in there and stand your ground. Explain to him that you want him to solo but YOU need to follow the regulations. Read 61.87 (a),(b),(c),(d). If he hasn't done this with you then he needs to understand your position as being the letter of the law for his and your safety. I have had students return after 25 years and in their 70's who do great when given a patient approach to bringing them back to a safe, but not a perfect by any means, standard of flying.

Have fun!

FlySacto