How shall I do this?

[Geigo]

The other day I interviewed with a company that was looking for someone to basically run an expanding 91/135 operation to include tracking duty time, negotiate contracts, and most importantly do the accounting. As growth happens I would get to "ride" deadhead legs to build up enough turbine time to get on the insurance. (No idea how long that would take) The problem is the pay that was offered was less than $10/hr! I feel my business/accounting experience is worth much more than that.

At the moment I have a flexible, better paying non-flying job that would allow me to survive and continue to instruct on the side. What I'm thinking about in order not to burn any bridges is to tell them I need more cash but volunteer to help set up the accounting, train a secretary, and fly when needed on a contract basis. This way I can hopefully get some turbine time while still looking for a position that appreciates my abilities.

Any thoughts?

TIA

Geigo

 

[7B2]

As growth happens I would get to "ride" deadhead legs to build up enough turbine time

As I understand you don't start of flying with them. So basically you just start doing accounting; in that case I can understand the pay. If you do get to fly right seat right from the start it seems low (looking at your total time you’re definitely ready for a right seat turboprop job). So I’m just worried they are going to “use” you and “promised” you the right seat time.
Unfortunately I’ve been there done that; they promise you right seat time but by that time you’re too busy with the accounting etc that someone else will take the flying place.
Take a good look at the operation, if you think there operating on a shoe string; don’t volunteer, but try to get just the flying time while keeping your better paying job.
If you’re convinced these guys are living up to there promises; go for it.

 

[Geigo]

Yep, I can see it going either way. Since they are paying me they might send me on trips rather than pay a contract pilot, or on the other hand they need the phone covered so they hire a contract pilot anyway.

In my view even only doing the accouting the pay is too low. My first CPA job just out of college paid more than that and I have much more experience now.

I have an idea on contract pay for accouting, but from what I find $200/day as a KA/Citation FO sound about right?

 

[huncowboy]

As I understand you don't start of flying with them. So basically you just start doing accounting; in that case I can understand the pay.

Than you may not be familiar with accounting salaries. $10/h for accounting is a rip off. Even a simple clerk starts with $14 w/o a degree. Anything below that is data entry. I am sure Geigo makes at least 40k but more likely in the 50s or 60s range depending on his experience and degree.

Geigo,
I am a nobody in aviation so I am not trying to give you an advice here but my gut feeling is that I would not want to work for anyone who obviously tries to screw you from day one. I don't see how this job will get better if it starts out with an offer like this. Can we even call this an offer? What can you expect from this employer in the future? He sure will never get another accountant for $10/h. Is he going to keep his word? Accounting can become pretty time consuming, I am sure you would hate to miss those deadhead rides.

I think with your hours you should be able to get something better.

 

[7B2]

Than you may not be familiar with accounting salaries. $10/h for accounting is a rip off

No I'm not but I am familiar with aviation! And believe me that there are more than you want to know operators out there that expect you to do this for free,.. sounds like a shocker again, sorry but that's how a lot of these operators operate. I'm not saying it's right but it's a fact, so it is up to the person wanting the time to "invest" in it.

Let me clarify it; if you are just starting in aviation and you're doing the CFI time building route, you better get proficient at using a knife to take quarters out of the washing machines at the local laundry mat.

But for Geigo here it is up to him if he believes he will get the rightseat time I think he should go for it, but you're also very right, with his times he should be able to get something else, but it is a competitave market out there and my guess again is that Geigo does not have turboprop time.

 

[Geigo]

Cowboy you are pretty close. Where I'm working now is not permanent, but they want it to be. Like so many of you might associate with, I can't stand doing this for a prolonged time. When I work I work really hard and the computer gets to me.

7B2 you're right too. Except it isn't just the aviation industry, there are alot of people out there that will take advantage of you any time they can. As long as they benefit they don't care about how it affects others. Just last week I saw someone trying to sell something on Ebay saying "Brand new for only $229.99" or $249.99 with a buy it now option. They even took the images and description straight from the manufacture's web site, where by the way, you could buy it for $139. Capitalisim at it's best. If I had those kind of balls...

Someone else has pointed me towards a job that, at least for me, could be a long term, even career job, but even if I get it, it's not for a while yet. I'm very much leaning towards waiting for it. In other posts I've seen some great opinions on how to diplomatically deal with situations and I was looking to see if anyone had thoughts on my idea above so I can afford to exist, get that valued multi-turbine time, and not throw away other opportunities.

 

[huncowboy]

7B2,

No offense meant in the previous post. It simply pissed me off to see $10/h for accounting. It is already bad to fly for nothing while you get paid with flight time but it is a different story to do an office job for nothing for the HOPE to be paid with flight time. Considering the lost wages he might as well PFT. What is the difference anyways? Pay with money or with unearned wages, sound like the same to me.

But on the other hand I know how it sucks sitting in a job (even if it pays well) that you hate... quite until you check out a job that you hate and pays c_rap LOL... like I did.

Nowadays there are no good choices but I would highly question a guy that offers such a "deal". I would not be surprised if his address would be in the sunny Boca Raton. Why not just say be my accountant for free and if I am happy with the work you are doing I might think about letting you wash my jet or whatever.

 

[Timebuilder]

You don't want to burn bridges. That's smart.

In view of that, I wouild have NOTHING to do with this outfit. Find a very nice and cordial way to say "no thanks."

Your accounting skills would be far undervalued, as mentioned above, and there is absolutely NO evidence I have seen in aviation that there is even a likelihood that these folks will either choose to, or be able to deliver on their promises. Even if they do, you can count on being paid next to nothing, as evidenced by what they are offering. This is a sad truth of a cutthroat business.

In charter, only one group makes the money: the guys whose names are on the certificate. They charge a lot, pay a little, and the aircraft owner pays for all crew and maintenance costs. The owners of the company provide the managment of the whole show, and incur very little costs, except for any aircraft that they might own. They keep the vast majority of money, and your portion will be far smaller than it would be in a corporate or airline situation. Your part is not worth your time at $10 an hour.


Almost all of these operators count on your desire to look down the road to a brighter future, and hope that you see the low pay and poor conditions that you put up with "now" as being worth the better pay and benefits that you may get "later." In a free market, you decide what you are worth, and what sacrifices you are willing, or unwilling, to make.

Your choice.

 

[Geigo]

Well, as you guys suggested when I told him I couldn't do the full time deal but I could work evenings setting up the accounting he said he needed someone to answer the phone ect. So no turbine time with them. I know something better will come along, hopefully sooner than later. Thanks for your help!

 

[7B2]

o I’m just worried they are going to “use” you and “promised” you the right seat time.

now I'm worried they're going to screw someone else, but I'm glad you didn't go for it.