How does your regional do wt & balance?

[F/O]

I think it's totally preposterous that in this day and age we are flying RJs around and filling out manual weight and balance forms.

I say it's a violation waiting to happen. There are more important uses for the F/O's time during a quick turn than to be rushing through that form.

The company (yah, maybe you can guess which one) appears to think using a PDA like at the regional I formerly worked at is too expensive or would take too much time and effort to implement. One thing I know is that it would be quick AND accurate each and every time.

How does your company do it?

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Cee Gee Wheel

 

[dondk]

we don't do anything.. unless ACARS is down then it is pencil and paper with a calculator...

Everything is done for us.. assuming the gate get's the number to load control in a reasonable amount of time...

 

[FSB99]

still use paper form and a whiz wheel.. although for the past 3 years we've been hearing that acculode will be here pretty soon!

 

[Q200_FO]

We use the PDA's, takes the Capt. no more than 5 min to do weight & balance. We all love it. If any info needs to be updated, just sync with the company docking stations in the check in room at the beginning or end of a trip. I doesn't take too much time and effort to implement, your company is just cheap.

 

[Mesa Lifer]

Who do you people work for and can you walk in my application? Mesa, because we spend all of our money trying to screw up perfectly good airlines, still does paper with indicies.

No shocker though.

-ML

 

[flipflyr]

That's easy

Cee Gee Wheel

Oh yeah. Guess what it is?

E I G H T U P!!


ff

 

[cl-65link]

Hey Don, do we work at the same place? I have flown the CRJ at Pinnacle for almost 3 years and have never had to do a manual weight and balance. ACARS or no ACARS, load control calculates the info, and if you're without ACARS, the station brings out a paper copy for the crew or relays the info over the radio. If Worldflight is down, that is another problem altogether. Haven't had to deal with that though, yet.

 

[dondk]

Scott...

I had to do the paper method twice, this year...

1stwas way early this year at one of our pre-acars stations in WI. Thier computer went down and CLC did not answer the phone for 20 minutes.

2nd was the notable MEM computer crash this past summer. We had to file our own flight plans (LAN was getting pissed) and do our own numbers. What was most memorable about this was Scott and Bill of DTW were ramping us as we came back in to check and see how we did our W+B...

But your right, you have a phone or someone with a printer and a radio and you will rarely need to manually do the numbers.

 

[flap operator]

I remember in the summer of 2001 when Worldflight went down. I was in DTW and it was a MESS!! Only the saabs could launch and then it was a fight for a word in on the frequency to CLC (much like the 7pm push in MSP) to get numbers. Now on the Avro our dispatchers do the w&b planning and acars the load data back to the plane. It seems to be working better since XJ took that over from NW - but that's just my opinion. I love the agents that close the flight out before they come to send us off. Numbers before leaving the gate are always nice.

Mesaba seems to be keenly interested in paperless flight decks, but I'll believe it when I'm not lugging my 50 lb bag o' books around. Just like I'll believe the new CFM for the avro exists when I can take that 5,000 page 8.5/11 monster POM outta my bag.

Of course, half of us will be unemployed in APril anyhow, so WTF am I worried about?


A pissed on FO

 

[cl-65link]

Don, this isn't Scott, it's Mark. Good guess though.

 

[NEDude]

We use a chart book. Look up the page with the number of passengers on board. Look for the column for the number of bags on board and go down to the line for ammount of fuel. There will be your takeoff wt and CG. If the space is blank, you're not legal. Pretty simple, takes about 15 seconds for the F/O to do.

 

[121slave]

Call load planning with breakdown of pax seating, wait for "numbers" back, write down on preplan worksheet, put zero fuel weight in FMS performance page go fly!

 

[Av8trxx]

Although I have heard a number of times the Multi Function Display CRT on the Saab can be used for all our numerical data, AMRon choses the old pencil & paper route. With TWO different performance books to rifle back and forth between: one for speeds, power and 'assumed temperature' calculations and one for determining rwy or climb limited weight (A printout if not a hub). Pain in the arse! The ground instructor told us that the avg new hire spends 4 hours on their first performance problem! Of course in the RJ, it's all done by the computer.

Interestingly, Southwest uses a only carbonless paper & pencil w&b sheet for the quickness of the operation (and no need to depend on comuters that go down). Ops agents do the calculations and then pilots input their data for speeds. I wish it were that way here....

 

[SkyWestCRJPilot]

It is pretty rediculous that at SkyWest we have to do manual manifests all the time (at least in IAH). I spend way too much time doing simple arithmetic which I know I can easily screw up. So I always get the FO to do it too to double check me, either on his calculator or on the FMS if one's installed. Then that makes two pilots wasting too much time doing simple arithmetic. Errors can still be made and missed by both pilots. It's amazing with all the great technology SkyWest has available that they can't come up with something better than a pen and paper. Don't even get me started about when rampers come and tell me they have 5 more bags to add on, then 2 minutes later 5 more bags.

 

[FightTheFuture]

spin that wheel

... Of course in the RJ, it's all done by the computer.....

We still do it manually on the beagle RJs. There is talk of W&B being done through ACARS but no word yet on when that will happen, and I thought it was gonna be on all domestic ops(SAABs too).


For you aviators at the other REgionAL airlines, how is your performance done? Is that done via ACARS too or manually?

 

[VADriver]

At a previous east Central Carolina RJ operator is was all done on one sheet. The FO did it and the CA did a quick check...not bad for paper..

At this East Coast operator, it takes two task monkeys to do one's job. The FO gets the manifest and while s/he is adding up the numbers the CA is stretching his/her neck trying to see the data to spin the wheel....looks like half of my cousins ERAU class taking a test....

There is this electronic box with a numeric key pad...whats that for anyway? Super secret stuff??

 

[Av8trxx]

Re: spin that wheel

We still do it manually on the beagle RJs.

Then all the performance books must be in the computer so you don't have to goosechase between books for limiting to/land weights to fill out the sheet? The jet guys who took SF3 recall I am with are moaning to no end how "It wasn't like this in the jet. That's what computers are for." (Well, that's basically the comment they have for EVERYTHING on the Saab...)

 

[FightTheFuture]

Re: Re: spin that wheel

Then all the performance books must be in the computer so you don't have to goosechase between books for limiting to/land weights to fill out the sheet? The jet guys who took SF3 recall I am with are moaning to no end how "It wasn't like this in the jet. That's what computers are for." (Well, that's basically the comment they have for EVERYTHING on the Saab...)

I don't know what they are talking about. We have a hub analysis book or use VAQs. Most of the time though the RJ isn't limited performance-wise here on the east coast. We sometimes get restrictions due to enroute fuel burn on the shorter hauls.
Unless I missed a bulletin or F-4 message the process hasn't been automated yet.