How do you Hawker 800 guys do it?

[Flying Illini]

As some of you have probably read in my posts in the "general" section, my company has decided to suspend right seat t/o's until we can come up with a procedure that works (apparently our current procedure that has been in effect for many years is no longer acceptable).

It is my understanding that the Hawker 800 has NO nosewheel steering available to the right seat pilot through the rudder pedals.

If so, could some of you fractional guys please describe your company's right seat take-off procedure in detail so that I may try to put together a procedure that satisfies the CP?
Again, if you could help in any way, I would really appreciate it. And please give detailed accounts as this is something we hope to institute and include in SOP's.

If anyone else reads this, if you operate an aircraft with no nosewheel steering available through the rudder pedals, feel free to describe your right seat t/o procedures as well. Every little bit helps.

Please specify which aircraft this is for.

Thankyou very much.

Signed, your very dejected "enroute and landing pilot only",

FI

 

[h25b]

This one is pretty simple...

I can't recall exactly what speed the left seat guys normally comes off the NWS, but I think it was like 80 kts...

If it's a right seat takeoff the procedure would be for the PF (right seater) to simply call "my controls" at that speed and you're off to the races... This would be done with the PNF (left seater) making the airspeed call-outs.

At least that's how I remember us doing both in the Saab 340 and the Hawker 800's...

 

[capt_zman]

Lined up on the runway, line up checks complete. PF brings power up (which is firewall on the Hawker due to the DEECs). Power set, APR on (Automatic Power Reserve), airspeed alive, 80 knots (left seat pilot transfers from tiller to yoke and by this time directional control is all through the rudder pedals), v1, vr, positive rate, etc. Would be very easy and safe to have the PF be the right seater. In the event of a reject, directional control is maintained via the rudder pedals anyway to a lower speed and then the left seat guy transfers back to the tiller. CRM is definitely an important factor here, as everyone needs to be aware of when the captain is going to take control of the airplane in the event of a reject. It's a bad deal if one is moving the tiller and the other is jamming the rudder and brakes.

As for landing, PF lands the airplane, deploys the life dump (manually via left seat pilot), deploys the reversers, maintains directional control via the rudder pedals and then transfers to the tiller at a lower airspeed. Again, CRM is a key factor here.

Hope this helps a bit.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

Why don't you just swap seats?

 

[G100driver]

Lined up on the runway, line up checks complete. PF brings power up (which is firewall on the Hawker due to the DEECs). Power set, APR on (Automatic Power Reserve), airspeed alive, 80 knots (left seat pilot transfers from tiller to yoke and by this time directional control is all through the rudder pedals), v1, vr, positive rate, etc. Would be very easy and safe to have the PF be the right seater. In the event of a reject, directional control is maintained via the rudder pedals anyway to a lower speed and then the left seat guy transfers back to the tiller. CRM is definitely an important factor here, as everyone needs to be aware of when the captain is going to take control of the airplane in the event of a reject. It's a bad deal if one is moving the tiller and the other is jamming the rudder and brakes.

As for landing, PF lands the airplane, deploys the life dump (manually via left seat pilot), deploys the reversers, maintains directional control via the rudder pedals and then transfers to the tiller at a lower airspeed. Again, CRM is a key factor here.

Hope this helps a bit.

Used the exact same procedure in the Astra I used to fly before the guy I flew with was typed. After he got typed we just swapped seats.

 

[gear_guy]

I agree....swap seats. In the interests of safety, that's what I would recomend.

 

[Flying Illini]

seat swapping: Why don't we do it, I have no clue. not my call to make and something tells me it will never happen. I mentioned that most operators just swap seats (to test the waters) and the topic quickly moved on. Oh well, doesn't bother me...but not being able to perform take-offs does (probably more than it should, but it's my favorite part!).

 

[G100driver]

I agree....swap seats. In the interests of safety, that's what I would recomend.

I do not know about the safety part concerning seat swaping. I hear the airlines have been operating safely this way for years.

Flying Illinios, are you typed? Have you been to school and done RTO's and actual V1 cuts at V1 white at MGTOW?

If the answer is "no" that might explain you CP's apprehension. I would not blame him. Not being properly trained to handle an RTO or actual emergency at V1 is a big deal. I am not saying that you could not do it, but as we always say ... "how does it sound at the hearing?"

If yes, then you work for a very insecure person. Keep that resume handy and start passing it out!

 

[G100driver]

soory, I see that you are typed in Falcon 10. We did the same procedure in Falcon 10 as described above.

When you got your 10 type rating did you go to FSI/simuflite or do it in-house?

 

[Flying Illini]

SimuFlite Initial Type course...going to FSI in 3 weeks for recurrent.
Did the 135 PIC check...will be going back for the same at recurrent. Type course was done from the left seat.

What procedure did you use in your -10? Seat swapping or the switch at 80kts method?
If you wouldn't mind, could you describe in any detail your -10 right seat t/o procedures?

Thanks in advance.

FI