How did the Arbitration go

[luv2fly]

So who did the arbitrator side with?

RAH or F9

My guess (if it hasn't happened already) is with RAH.

F9 (not the pilots, but the union) has let their EGO cloud what judgement they should have.

 

[Minimaniac]

Arbitrator's decision is not due until the end of May, assuming he renders his decision on the unions' agreed upon timetable. Every party is bringing something to the table, so no one group should be singled out for an unfortunate outcome. Some in each pilot group will come out smelling like roses, and a good number in each pilot group will feel cheated.

 

[b82rez]

So who did the arbitrator side with?

RAH or F9

My guess (if it hasn't happened already) is with RAH.

F9 (not the pilots, but the union) has let their EGO cloud what judgement they should have.

Arbitration didn't even begin yet.

It seems, with the way that SWA guys on here can't let this thing go, that it's not a problem with F9s EGO but with that of the SWA's pilots.

 

[arjayeffo]

Luv2fly,

in only a few short months (if not already according to some) you will be number 2 in Denver. A crew base there (so you wont have to commute anymore) will surely come along shortly thereafter. Maybe then, with all of your concerns about the welfare of us poor F9 pilots in the rear view mirror, you will have the time to educate yourself and make posts that indicate some basic level of intelligence.

 

[jetalc]

Luv2fly,

in only a few short months (if not already according to some) you will be number 2 in Denver. A crew base there (so you wont have to commute anymore) will surely come along shortly thereafter. Maybe then, with all of your concerns about the welfare of us poor F9 pilots in the rear view mirror, you will have the time to educate yourself and make posts that indicate some basic level of intelligence.

Nicely said. This dewsh (Luv2fly) represents the "New SWA" generation. I think we're all at F9 having a hard time reconciling being owned by the same holding company that owns regionals, but this level of buttheaditude is something in which only the immensely immature participate. Pretty sad - and I wish for nobody's demise, even those at Southwest who have made our lives almost unbearable. Karma is a funny thing.

 

[sshrae]

Correct me if I am wrong f9 guys, but would'nt the swa deal have left at least 150+ more pilots on furlough immediately? Then all of them would have to re-interview for a position at swa? Seems like at least for now the rah deal was the better of 2 evils. Hope the sli goes well for you guys.

 

[jetalc]

Correct me if I am wrong f9 guys, but would'nt the swa deal have left at least 150+ more pilots on furlough immediately? Then all of them would have to re-interview for a position at swa? Seems like at least for now the rah deal was the better of 2 evils. Hope the sli goes well for you guys.

Thanks - we're hoping for a relatively smooth proceeding from here. And yes, that's the theory about the furloughs, since SWA was only buying 80% of the company. Only time will tell, and there are arguments both ways as to whether we would have been better off with a third of our FO's on the street or with The Rev and his band of hooligans. In the end, it doesn't matter, since the BK judge threw out the SWA as unacceptable.

Appreciate the good wishes - we're all just trying to do the best with where we are...just like everybody else.

 

[vixin]

They would not have had to reinterview and I highly doubt they would have been furloughed. Everyone I know would have taken the reduction in Trip totals until the growth machine kicked in. But the F9ers will say something else. Even the F9 furloughed pilots were going to get a SWA number. As well as Lynx. NO reinterview...who comes up with this? Jet, how has SWA made your life unbearable?

The judge did throw out the bid and SWA didnt put anoter bid in. This BS about the pilots not getting along on a deal is a joke. Does anyone really believe GK gave a rats ass about the pilots working out a deal. I dont. There wasnt a chance in heck that was going to get worked out in less then 2 days.

Good luck to you guys!

 

[ChinaClipper]

Funny thing....

is that NO ONE at WN will mention the details of eight pages worth of contingencies that, IMHO, were DESIGNED to force a rejection of any "integration" of F9. Thats right, EIGHT PAGES of things like Fuel Cost, etc. that if met, would NEGATE any "offers" of integrating ANYTHING of what would have been left of F9. Seems that with the chest pounding comes a convienent deafness to the nuances of the deal. God gave you TWO ears and ONE mouth, take the devine hint about the ratio of usage...BTW Do ANY pilots believe ANYTHING crafted by Airline Managers and the Lawyer sc um that follow them around? Remember boys, all glory is fleeting....

 

[jetalc]

They would not have had to reinterview and I highly doubt they would have been furloughed. Everyone I know would have taken the reduction in Trip totals until the growth machine kicked in. But the F9ers will say something else. Even the F9 furloughed pilots were going to get a SWA number. As well as Lynx. NO reinterview...who comes up with this? Jet, how has SWA made your life unbearable?

The judge did throw out the bid and SWA didnt put anoter bid in. This BS about the pilots not getting along on a deal is a joke. Does anyone really believe GK gave a rats ass about the pilots working out a deal. I dont. There wasnt a chance in heck that was going to get worked out in less then 2 days.

Good luck to you guys!

Vixin -

Nice post. I don't know what your source is regarding "no interview, few if any furloughs." I've talked to several friends at SWA who seem to believe everything from what you said up to and including the "fact" that SWA was going to pull some aircraft from the desert in order to accomodate the suddenly larger seniority list. Who knows? (That's a rhetorical question, BTW) It's all circumspection, and which theory any of us chooses to believe is up to us individually. I believe that, due to the continued stagnation at SWA, only a minority would have stayed at work, even some of the 15+ year Captains that are currently at F9. Just my opinion.

Why SWA has made life unbearable is probably an exaggeration. "Unbearable" is a pretty strong word in retrospect, but a more accurate word would be "more difficult." We've had some tough times, and the perception is that SWA is tremendously predatory, preying on lesser companies that are down and out. We have clearly been down as well as almost out for the last couple years, even with what I believe to be a superior product. It's a tough pill to swallow when arrogant crewmembers at SWA wonder out loud (yes, this has really happened) why we are "still around" and "why don't you guys just leave Denver?" I know these idiots are not typical of all SWA crewmembers, but those moronic comments add insult to injury. When you are proud of the company and the product you offer, it's difficult to listen to those idiots when they think that their company's product is somehow deserving of survival when yours is not. Makes you wanna reach out and touch someone. SWA Flight Attendants in SLC on one particular overnight suggested that F9 could "learn something" from SWA's wonderful Customer Service Department. Combine spatterings of cocky attitudes from Koolaid-Filled idiots with the very real fact that SWA has lost a TON of money in Denver trying to eliminate competition, and yes, SWA has made life for us "difficult."

Not whining - it's "just business," right? I understand that, but it seems more and more prevalent with crewmembers at SWA feeling that they are somehow superior, and they confuse having a ton of cash in the bank with providing a better product. SWA Marketing Department has done a stellar job, I believe, at swindling the public into believing that if they don't go to southwest.com then they are paying too much for airfare. Genius, and it takes some inspired management to pull that one off. SWA has played the game better than most other airlines out there, and it seems most SWA employees are very proud of the product they are part of. But, take away the cash and the hype, and, let's face it - you guys are flying stripped-down 737's containing the white trash of the world. Frequency? Absolutely! Phenomenal Customer Service? That's not necessarily true. Lowest fares? Maybe in some markets, definitely not in others. It's all about perception, and SWA has played the public beautifully.

F9 has now entered into a new chapter, for better or worse, and regardless of the POSSIBLE outcomes, it's all irrelevant now. We're just trying to hang on for our lives, and convince an otherwise deaf management at RAH that employees really do matter will probably be an ongoing battle. For people like "Luv2fly" come on spouting "death to RAH" now that he's working for a company that actually cares about its employees is an arrogant, self-serving masturbation. Wishing for the death of RAH also includes F9 and my ability to pay a mortgage, and that is asking for a fight. Enjoy your right-seat, Luv2fly, cuz you're gonna be there for a VERY LONG TIME.

And, I agree, Vixin - good luck to us all. Sorry about the blathering.

 

[arjayeffo]

Blathering... Not even close. Amazing post. Amazing.

The only thing I have to add is that SWA further benefits from 20/10 hindsight in all of this. You can say that nobody would have been furloughed, everybody would have had jobs, and all of the SWA pilots would have taken one in the wallet to keep us above board. You can (and some most likely will) say for years that the theoretical deal offered by swa trumps that of republic. Because you have absolutely no burden of proof. None. Everything you say now about how great it 'could have been' for us is, and will for years be, compared against the reality of what actually IS for us on the aftermath of RAH ownership. But we do we have a few ex-ATA guys here who manage to keep that whole 'preferential interview' idea of a promise in perspective for us.

For the record, I am a junior F9 F/O, and I am still- even under the ever shrinking umbrella of the Reverends promises - extremely happy to still have a job flying an F9 airbus.

 

[kwick]

So who did the arbitrator side with?

RAH or F9

My guess (if it hasn't happened already) is with RAH.

F9 (not the pilots, but the union) has let their EGO cloud what judgement they should have.

You tried to screw the Frontier pilots out of their seats and domicles.

They said "NO". Now get over it.

 

[jetalc]

Vixin -

Nice post. I don't know what your source is regarding "no interview, few if any furloughs." I've talked to several friends at SWA who seem to believe everything from what you said up to and including the "fact" that SWA was going to pull some aircraft from the desert in order to accomodate the suddenly larger seniority list. Who knows? (That's a rhetorical question, BTW) It's all circumspection, and which theory any of us chooses to believe is up to us individually. I believe that, due to the continued stagnation at SWA, only a minority would have stayed at work, even some of the 15+ year Captains that are currently at F9. Just my opinion.

Why SWA has made life unbearable is probably an exaggeration. "Unbearable" is a pretty strong word in retrospect, but a more accurate word would be "more difficult." We've had some tough times, and the perception is that SWA is tremendously predatory, preying on lesser companies that are down and out. We have clearly been down as well as almost out for the last couple years, even with what I believe to be a superior product. It's a tough pill to swallow when arrogant crewmembers at SWA wonder out loud (yes, this has really happened) why we are "still around" and "why don't you guys just leave Denver?" I know these idiots are not typical of all SWA crewmembers, but those moronic comments add insult to injury. When you are proud of the company and the product you offer, it's difficult to listen to those idiots when they think that their company's product is somehow deserving of survival when yours is not. Makes you wanna reach out and touch someone. SWA Flight Attendants in SLC on one particular overnight suggested that F9 could "learn something" from SWA's wonderful Customer Service Department. Combine spatterings of cocky attitudes from Koolaid-Filled idiots with the very real fact that SWA has lost a TON of money in Denver trying to eliminate competition, and yes, SWA has made life for us "difficult."

Not whining - it's "just business," right? I understand that, but it seems more and more prevalent with crewmembers at SWA feeling that they are somehow superior, and they confuse having a ton of cash in the bank with providing a better product. SWA Marketing Department has done a stellar job, I believe, at swindling the public into believing that if they don't go to southwest.com then they are paying too much for airfare. Genius, and it takes some inspired management to pull that one off. SWA has played the game better than most other airlines out there, and it seems most SWA employees are very proud of the product they are part of. But, take away the cash and the hype, and, let's face it - you guys are flying stripped-down 737's containing the white trash of the world. Frequency? Absolutely! Phenomenal Customer Service? That's not necessarily true. Lowest fares? Maybe in some markets, definitely not in others. It's all about perception, and SWA has played the public beautifully.

F9 has now entered into a new chapter, for better or worse, and regardless of the POSSIBLE outcomes, it's all irrelevant now. We're just trying to hang on for our lives, and convince an otherwise deaf management at RAH that employees really do matter will probably be an ongoing battle. For people like "Luv2fly" come on spouting "death to RAH" now that he's working for a company that actually cares about its employees is an arrogant, self-serving masturbation. Wishing for the death of RAH also includes F9 and my ability to pay a mortgage, and that is asking for a fight. Enjoy your right-seat, Luv2fly, cuz you're gonna be there for a VERY LONG TIME.

And, I agree, Vixin - good luck to us all. Sorry about the blathering.

BTW - getting my threads confused here. Sorry. Any reference to Luv2Fly should be replaced with "YuppyGuppy". Sorry Luv2Fly - your original post wasn't as condemning as Yuppyguppy on the "Will Republic Survive" thread. My apologies.

 

[crashpad]

So who did the arbitrator side with?

Code Blue...Somebody call the WHAAAAAAmbulance.
One seriously damaged EGO needs a big 'ol LUV-HUG!!!
C'mere boobie and get your manhug.

 

[Toobdrvr]

Let. It. Go.

Or, if that's too hard:

Get. A. Life...

Eagerly anticipating the day that F9, RAH, YX business is no longer front-page news on FI.

 

[maxblast72]

This is a major reason why America can't compete globally as well anymore. We teach our kids that everyone is a winner and there are no losers. We give kids trophies for winning and trophies for last place so little Johny doesn't get his feelings hurt.

History says a large market (like DEN) usually only supports 2 large carriers and midsize cities like MKE can only support 1 large carrier. Right now both of these cities probably have excess capacity. There are going to be winners and losers. What is wrong with rooting for your company to be one of the winners? That competition in generally free markets is what has made America into the greatest country on Earth.

The competition is not personal. It is just business. I used to fly for Shuttle but now work for Airtran. The winners and losers of this battle are really going to determined to a large degree on the decisions of Bedford, Kelly, Fornaro, and Tilton and to a smaller degree the efficiency and service produced by the employees including pilots. I have confidence in Fornaro, I am sure most SWA guys have confidence in Kelly, how do the Republic, Frontier, and Midwest guys feel about Bedford (I wouldn't want to guess about UAL guys and Tilton).

 

[crj410]

You tried to screw the Frontier pilots out of their seats and domicles.

They said "NO". Now get over it.

Actually it will be Bedford that will be doing the screwing. Just look at his historical track record. We all can learn alot from history if people would stop being so ignorant. Heard Rah put in order for new CRJ 100 + seat. Think he'll keep those airbuses. where do those planes fit in your payscale breakdown ? I really hope that all your pilots are on the same page. Alpa did a wonderful job fragmenting the whole entire airline industry.

 

[texman]

They would not have had to reinterview and I highly doubt they would have been furloughed. Everyone I know would have taken the reduction in Trip totals until the growth machine kicked in. But the F9ers will say something else. Even the F9 furloughed pilots were going to get a SWA number. As well as Lynx. NO reinterview...who comes up with this? Jet, how has SWA made your life unbearable?

The judge did throw out the bid and SWA didnt put anoter bid in. This BS about the pilots not getting along on a deal is a joke. Does anyone really believe GK gave a rats ass about the pilots working out a deal. I dont. There wasnt a chance in heck that was going to get worked out in less then 2 days.

Good luck to you guys!

I agree. GK Just wanted to show good faith to the culture and this was a perfect opportunity to do so. But he also wanted to see F9's books. If GK wanted the deal to go through he would of put more cash out there. Being at the bottom of the list at SWA, it would of been nice to see some growth with the F9 deal. I personally feel that the low cost structure of RAH may be the key to the whole company to survive but we all know that this is a customer service biz, not just what us pilots can get out of the deal. So if F9 and Midwest peeps can lead by example teach RAH great customer service then the customers will follow. This is key.

 

[starchkr]

Actually it will be Bedford that will be doing the screwing. Just look at his historical track record. We all can learn alot from history if people would stop being so ignorant. Heard Rah put in order for new CRJ 100 + seat. Think he'll keep those airbuses. where do those planes fit in your payscale breakdown ? I really hope that all your pilots are on the same page. Alpa did a wonderful job fragmenting the whole entire airline industry.

See what happens when i go away for a couple months with better things to do than read and post here on FI...this place goes to he!!. So i guess i should stick around more often...:laugh:

Ok, Anyway!!

crj410, those CRJ 1000's actually fall under the F9 contract which runs coincidentally through the delivery of those birds. Rev BB already signed off on the contract and it enforces that the new birds be flown by F9 guys/gals. So that's good.

 

[king10pin02]

See what happens when i go away for a couple months with better things to do than read and post here on FI...this place goes to he!!. So i guess i should stick around more often...:laugh:

Ok, Anyway!!

crj410, those CRJ 1000's actually fall under the F9 contract which runs coincidentally through the delivery of those birds. Rev BB already signed off on the contract and it enforces that the new birds be flown by F9 guys/gals. So that's good.

rah did not order the crj1000, and by the time the C-series that rah did order exists, it will be one list, and that seniority list will determine who flies the aircraft. there will be no "f9 guys only or RW guys only" flying those aircraft.