How cough syrup = substance user and unemployment

[BrokeAssPilot]

Ok here it goes:

This is not bs, because i am the one the story is about, just thought it might help some of you out!

I have been flying since a kid and always dreamed of being a pilot (wtf was i dreaming?)... Get hired at an airline my busting my tail flying charter and all that jazz not my traffic patterns...Upgrade not happening so i bail out...2nd airline class started in march a few years ago, took cough syrup w/ codeine in it that was in my home medicene cabnit, Hell.. i didn't look to see who it was, wasn't going to be in the air much less did not even think about. Fail pre-emply drug test and now a year and a half later after spending more than it cost me to learn to fly and knowing a u.s. senator i now finnaly have my medical back after it was revoked from the faa. Now don't go telling me that i should have hired a lawyer and done this or done that, because i happen to be kin to one of the best out there, and had two more criminal defense attys on my side also. Bottom line guys and gals, please watch what you take out there and do not take your mommys or daddys or jr's f'n medicine. "If you admit to and take someone else's precription med's you are deemed a substance abuse user by the FAA". Quote from the judge in my federal trial!!!

 

[Skyboy722]

Holy smokes that suck$!!!!

 

[_BravoWhiskey_]

Wow, I mean that sucks really bad. Are you going to be able to remove popping postitive from the DOT records? Yeah, the airlines suck now, but maybe one day you'll want to do it again, and the gov't, they never forget. I wouldn't even eat so much as a poppy seed muffin the day before and of a pre-emp screen. You have to be paranoid about this stuff... As you well know, Broke.

BTW- did anybody see the Mythbuster's thing on poppy seeds and drug tests? I was on an overnight when I saw it and my jaw dropped open, I had always thought it was a myth!

 

[propjob27]

BTW- did anybody see the Mythbuster's thing on poppy seeds and drug tests? I was on an overnight when I saw it and my jaw dropped open, I had always thought it was a myth!

I don't normally watch that show, but I am very curious to know the answer. I eat bagels all the time w/ poppy seeds on them. I take it the guy tested positive for opiates (sp)? Was it a piss test? How much did he actually eat?
I was always told you'd have to drink a milk jug of poppy seeds in order to show + for a piss test.

Let us know if you remember any of the details.

 

[Gorilla]

No you don't need to eat a lot of poppy seeds to test positive. A couple of PS bagels = morphine in your urine. Avoid them at all times.

Here's what happens... The pee test looks for morphine. Codeine, morphine, and even heroin all get converted via metabolism to morphine in your body. You pee, and the test sees morphine. Because the test cannot tell what the source was, for all they know you are a heroin adict.

Be careful too of canadian "aspirin", which often contains codeine.

 

[maru657]

I always wondered about the presidents military record that showed him avoiding a flight physical with a possible drug test.

 

[warbirdfinder]

Sounds as if you are real Dan Rather fan!!!!!!!!

 

[SWA GUY]

Maru,

You set a new baseline for the IQ test didn't you?

 

[FlyBarneyJets]

I don't normally watch that show, but I am very curious to know the answer. I eat bagels all the time w/ poppy seeds on them. I take it the guy tested positive for opiates (sp)? Was it a piss test? How much did he actually eat?
I was always told you'd have to drink a milk jug of poppy seeds in order to show + for a piss test.

Let us know if you remember any of the details.

When he says "Jaw dropping," he's not too far off the mark. The two of them tried to bust the myth, one by eating lemon poppyseed cake and the other by eating poppyseed bagels. Within an hour after eating a normal serving, they were whizzing positives. And they KEPT whizzing positives for like 36 hours. They even had a guy in a drug test lab on there who swore up and down that a poppyseed bagel wasn't enough to whizz positive. He was shocked to see the outcome of the experiment.

 

[radarlove]

The good news is that it takes more then a positive opiate test to get your medical pulled, the docs that do the review are specialized in substance abuse and can, through a telephone interview, tell if you are a substance abuser or poppy-seed bagel eater.

In fact, in some of the guidance documents, poppy-seed positive tests are addressed and specifically require confirming evidence of a drug problem.

Now to the originator of this thread, he with the "kin" that is so powerful, testing positive for opiates that came from someone else's cough syrup (not your own, but another perscription) is evidence that you abuse drugs to the FDA.

How many of us are gulping someone else's codeine?

 

[learflyer]

No you don't need to eat a lot of poppy seeds to test positive. A couple of PS bagels = morphine in your urine. Avoid them at all times.

Here's what happens... The pee test looks for morphine. Codeine, morphine, and even heroin all get converted via metabolism to morphine in your body. You pee, and the test sees morphine. Because the test cannot tell what the source was, for all they know you are a heroin adict.

Be careful too of canadian "aspirin", which often contains codeine.

This happened to me! But they took further tests and were able to "isolate that is was poppy seeds". This was about 15 yrs ago. Are you sure they can't tell these days?

 

[imacdog]

A coworker of mine (chief pilot at a small 135 company) tested positive after having a some poppyseed cake. He said the doctor was able to tell that there weren't signs of regular use and could tell it was most likely from poppyseeds. I avoid poppyseeds in anything now.

 

[Ty Webb]

Keee-rist, what are you guys, scared of your own shadows? Grow a pair. Eat what you want. It is still a free country. If you don't abuse drugs, then don't live in fear of eating a dam.n bagel, for crying out loud. We're talking a false positive here, not a weekend crack binge.

As for the codeine-swilling episode that started this whole thing, in many states, codeine cough syrup does not require a prescription.Florida did not when I lived there (until 2000) and probably still doesn't (Terpinhydrate w/Codeine, it works great/lasts a long time). . If you took it while you were not working, and you bought it in Florida, it should not have been much of an issue. If they didn't find this info, the only thing "high-powered" about your law-yer was his bill.


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[Dangerkitty]

No you don't need to eat a lot of poppy seeds to test positive. A couple of PS bagels = morphine in your urine. Avoid them at all times.

Here's what happens... The pee test looks for morphine. Codeine, morphine, and even heroin all get converted via metabolism to morphine in your body. You pee, and the test sees morphine. Because the test cannot tell what the source was, for all they know you are a heroin adict.

With all due respect Gorilla you are not giving out very good advice.

Can poppy seeds give you a FALSE positive? Yes

However, that is the reason that your urine is split up into two different samples upon collection.

The first is given a very generic test that screens for the basics.

If a false positive occurs then they take the second sample and do a much more invasive test that will verify if the false positive is correct or not.

Eat all the poppy seeds you want. I agree with Ty you guys are scared of your own shadows. You are also probably the same folks that reccommed not using mouth wash for fear that it might show alcohol in your system 45 minutes later.

And as for the person who started this thread. Something does not add up. I am no lawyer but why you went to Federal court for failing a DOT drug test is beyond me.

 

[1st Overnite]

And they KEPT whizzing positives for like 36 hours.

A 36 hour piss!! They must have drank a lot of coffee!

 

[radarlove]

With all due respect Gorilla you are not giving out very good advice.

Can poppy seeds give you a FALSE positive? Yes

However, that is the reason that your urine is split up into two different samples upon collection.

The first is given a very generic test that screens for the basics.

If a false positive occurs then they take the second sample and do a much more invasive test that will verify if the false positive is correct or not.

Eat all the poppy seeds you want. I agree with Ty you guys are scared of your own shadows. You are also probably the same folks that reccommed not using mouth wash for fear that it might show alcohol in your system 45 minutes later.

And as for the person who started this thread. Something does not add up. I am no lawyer but why you went to Federal court for failing a DOT drug test is beyond me.

You're correct that the first assay tests are less reliable and that the secondary gas-chromo tests that happen after the assays say "gotcha" are more accurate, but you're completely wrong about the opiate part. The metabolytes being tested (gas or assay) for opiates are exactly the same whether you ate a poppy seed bagel or smoked a hookah full of opium.

Poppy-seed bagels=positive test. The Medical Review Officer determines if there is a drug problem or not after the positive test.

I steer clear of poppy-seed bagels and have ever since I first read the protocols for drug and alcohol testing where the Q&A for Medical Review Officers directed the steps to take if someone tested positive for opiates but claimed to have eaten a poppy-seed bagel.

 

[propjob27]

I'm not going to let this job dictate what I eat. If I want a poppy seed bagel, which I often do, then I'm eating one. It's the doctors responsibility to distinguish between a f u ck ing bagel and opium, not mine.

 

[JP4user]

Be careful too of canadian "aspirin", which often contains codeine.

Good advice...except it isn't just limited to Canadian. Many brands overseas contains codeine...especially European.

 

[Gorilla]

With all due respect Gorilla you are not giving out very good advice.

Can poppy seeds give you a FALSE positive? Yes

However, that is the reason that your urine is split up into two different samples upon collection.

The first is given a very generic test that screens for the basics.

If a false positive occurs then they take the second sample and do a much more invasive test that will verify if the false positive is correct or not.

Enlighten us, then. They have your urine, not your blood. If codeine metabolizes into morphine in your body, which it does, and you pee the subsequent morphine metabolites, then what is the secret super-test they do to determine of you took a Canadian aspirin or are a morphine addict?

 

[Dangerkitty]

Enlighten us, then. They have your urine, not your blood. If codeine metabolizes into morphine in your body, which it does, and you pee the subsequent morphine metabolites, then what is the secret super-test they do to determine of you took a Canadian aspirin or are a morphine addict?

An opiate is an opiate. It really doesn't matter what that opiate is. What I am talking about is getting FALSE positives.

There is no super secret test out there. One is a basic test that is used to screen for various substances not allowed by the DOT. If a positive or false positive occurs they then screen the second vile of urine that they collected. The second test is much more invasive and used to weed out false positives and confirm the intial "red flag" An example of just such an instance would be the Tour de France winner Landis getting screened for a second time since he tested positive for doping. They are using a more invasive test to confirm or deny if he used a banned substance.

It's all a moot point anyway. If you took Canadian aspirin or you took morphine they are both still an opiate and would show up in the drug test as such. They are both banned substances as far as a DOT test is concerned so you would be screwed either way.

When I had to go in for minor surgery and was prescribed Hydrocodone I was told to wait at least 72 hours before I flew again to make sure that all of the pain medication was out of my system.

This aint rocket science folks.

 

[Terry Hunter]

I'm with the cat on this one. Something isn't adding up (in the original person's thread.)

And, two things I know concerning poppyseed and drug tests: In recent years, a threshold was instilled to rule out false positives caused by poppyseed food items. The limit correlates to approximately two bagels/muffins per day. Also, drug test centers are under procedure to retest after 1 hour if a person claims they failed a test due to poppyseed. It washes out that fast.

Lastly, I believe that most people are offered a reason to explain their failed results (a la Landis, who I do believe cheated). A simple sample on a hair follicle will solve everything, and clearly show the difference in drug use/purpose when initially ingested.

 

[atafan]

I had a surgery a few years ago and was prescribed Tylenol with Codeine. I only used a few and most of the bottle was just sitting in the medicine cabinet. A year or so later I threw out my back and would take anything just to walk again. I took a couple of these tylenols without thinking anything about it. I reported for a trip a couple of days later and started thinking about the pills I took, wondering if I just screwed the pooch.

If I had been tested what do you think the outcome would have been?

P.S. I threw the un-empty bottle way when I returned from the trip.

 

[radarlove]

A simple sample on a hair follicle will solve everything, and clearly show the difference in drug use/purpose when initially ingested.

The FAA does not use hair follicle (it's actually "hair sample") testing.

They use the urine only (no blood) and they only test for the prohibited drugs.

 

[blzr]

Always carry a copy of the prescription or a doctors note regarding the medicine. I got popped with the Whiz quiz shortly after I returned to work after being off for 3 weeks with pneumonia. One of my medications was Hystonex, which is wonderful and contains a good bit of codine. I never heard another word Re: the whiz quiz.

 

[PurpleTail]

Always carry a copy of the prescription or a doctors note regarding the medicine.

Best advise I've read yet. Might not be full proof but its a great CYA manuever, thanks.

 

[Dangerkitty]

Always carry a copy of the prescription or a doctors note regarding the medicine. I got popped with the Whiz quiz shortly after I returned to work after being off for 3 weeks with pneumonia. One of my medications was Hystonex, which is wonderful and contains a good bit of codine. I never heard another word Re: the whiz quiz.

Thats actually not good advice. If you tested positive for Codeine you still would have been on duty with a banned substance in your system. Doctor's note or not you cannot report to work with substances in your body that the FAA does not allow. A doctor's excuse means nothing in that regard.

However, it only takes 48-72 hours for pills to vacate your body.

 

[ils2minimums]

The original post doesn't pass the smell test... That being said, the guy has one of the coolest avatars I've ever seen..

 

[ackattacker]

The original post doesn't pass the smell test... That being said, the guy has one of the coolest avatars I've ever seen..

I believe him. Such things do happen. I'm glad for the warning... I have seen people who obviously didn't know this. One time I had to insist that another pilot call in sick immediately after he revealed to me that he was on Tylenol w/codeine prescribed after dental surgery. He actually had no idea it was a problem.

 

[blzr]

Thats actually not good advice. If you tested positive for Codeine you still would have been on duty with a banned substance in your system. Doctor's note or not you cannot report to work with substances in your body that the FAA does not allow. A doctor's excuse means nothing in that regard.

However, it only takes 48-72 hours for pills to vacate your body.

I'm not saying that you should use medication and fly. The people administering the test were very nice and took all of my necessary info and that was the end of it. However, if I hadn't have had all of the info with me, I can see where it would have been a problem.

 

[FN FAL]

I'm not saying that you should use medication and fly...

But?





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