How can I do this?

[DX Rick]

I have a 182 in a remote area. I have 3 companies that want to pay me for running parts to larger cities on a daily basis. I would like to run this under 91 op's.
My best suggestion for myself is to organize a "club" or partnership and have the three companies buy time in the airplane, or buy actual shares of the plane while I fly the part runs for them.

Any other suggestions to keep this 91?

 

[midlifeflyer]

I have not had a chance to look at it in any detail (never had a reason to), but you probably want to look closely and get professional advice on the applicability of Subpart K of Part 91, which deals with fractional ownership operations. I think it applies to your situation.

 

[Lead Sled]

I have a 182 in a remote area. I have 3 companies that want to pay me for running parts to larger cities on a daily basis. I would like to run this under 91 op's.
My best suggestion for myself is to organize a "club" or partnership and have the three companies buy time in the airplane, or buy actual shares of the plane while I fly the part runs for them.

Any other suggestions to keep this 91?

That will probably never pass the "smell" test as our attorney calls it.

The FAA isn't stupid and if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck. When it comes to stuff like this, you're probably very wise to pass it by a good aviation attorney as oppossed to getting potientally "career altering" decisions from members of an aviation board.

'Sled

 

[DX Rick]

That will probably never pass the "smell" test as our attorney calls it.

The FAA isn't stupid and if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck. When it comes to stuff like this, you're probably very wise to pass it by a good aviation attorney as oppossed to getting potientally "career altering" decisions from members of an aviation board.

'Sled

"pass it by a good aviation attorney"

I'm going to look into this.

 

[viper548]

If they pay you to deliver parts without specifying what means of transportation you use, you're ok (they pay you to deliver parts, not to fly an airplane). If you're using the plane all the time, it's gonna look suspicious though. I'd suggest calling your local FSDO and ask them how this could be done legally.

 

[mattpilot]

Actually, it is legal to do it under part91.

The hitch is you can't "hold out to others". If you and 3 companies make an agreement and it stays with those 3 companies, no problem. If a 4th company asks you to fly something, even if its a one time occurance, you are starting to hold out to the general public. Thats a no-no.

Read up on "private carriage" - thats what you are intending to do. THe FAA has often ruled that one company can be the private carrier of 3 or 4 companies (= part 91 rules). However, if you start holding out to anyone like the fractionals do, then Subpart K in 91 becomes an issue.

Anyhow - as i said, do your own research on "private carriage" and how you plan on operating within those rules.

 

[pilotviolin]

Since it is one airplane then subpart K doesn't apply, as it was explained to me by the faa. And why the he!! would you ever want to call the fisdo! Those jokers will tell you what they want to hear, and it is no everytime. They end up contradicting themselves every time I talk to them. Call a lawyer to be safe.

 

[viper548]

Since it is one airplane then subpart K doesn't apply, as it was explained to me by the faa. And why the he!! would you ever want to call the fisdo! Those jokers will tell you what they want to hear, and it is no everytime. They end up contradicting themselves every time I talk to them. Call a lawyer to be safe.

I agree that 99% of the time it's pointless to call the FSDO because they won't answer your question, but IF they do say it's OK, get a name and have at it.

 

[EatSleepFly]

I have a 182 in a remote area. I have 3 companies that want to pay me for running parts to larger cities on a daily basis. I would like to run this under 91 op's.
My best suggestion for myself is to organize a "club" or partnership and have the three companies buy time in the airplane, or buy actual shares of the plane while I fly the part runs for them.

Any other suggestions to keep this 91?

I would say no way to keep it 91, unless you sell the airplane outright to one of the companies and they hire you as a pilot.

If one of those other companies owned the airplane, and you simply flew it for them and the other two, that would be fine. You would essentially be a corporate pilot.

The fact that you own the airplane makes it a no-go. You don't have to advertise your airplane and services for it to be considered "holding out." If those companies approach you about flying their parts and you accept, that is holding out. If you approach them, and they accept, that is also holding out.

Some might argue, like mattpilot said, that you can fly for a certain number of companies exclusively and remain under Part 91. I think in those cases where the FAA allows that, one company owns the plane, and allows a couple of specific others to use it. Different from what you're talking about.

What you're suggesting would be the equivalent of my company (an on-demand freight operator) getting rid of their 135 certificate and only flying freight for our top 3 customers. Heck, the top three probably make up a good 85% of our flying anyways. Believe me, I'm sure my company would be doing this very thing if they could. Fortunately, the FAA would never allow that. For that I am glad, because they find enough ways to abuse us as it is. If we were a part 91 op., they would just keep us in a cage at the airport.

My $.02. But good luck anyways...

 

[onthebeach]

If you really want to do this, you can.

First, you will have to convince the three companies to buy your airplane.

You/they will form a corporation (incorporate in Nevada) for the purpose of operational of control of said airplane. Each company/corporate entitity will own a share of the corporate assets, namely, the airplane. One company will own a controlling share, and the corporation you form will be a subsidiary of the company that owns the controlling share.

You will be an employee of the corporation and be paid by it. In this way you will be shielded from liability by the corporate veil.

The controlling regulation is 91.501. In order to employ a CE-182 under this regulation, the corporation joins NBAA and will thus be able to operate said small airplane under FAR 91, Subpart F, by means of what is known as the NBAA Exemption. See the NBAA website to obtain a copy.

Any competent aviation attorney can set this up easily. Contact AOPA for a referral to same.

The hitch is, you will REALLY have to sell your airplane, and REALLY be an employee of the corporation, because the FAA will REALLY look into your operation and if it's not legit, they will REALLY crawl inside your knickers and make a home there.

So, the real question boils down to: do you want to take it easy, keep your airplane, and fly a little? or, lose your airplane, work a lot, and fly a lot? If the latter, welcome to the real world of professional flying...