Honest question here!!

[court_goodroe]

Flying cargo deals alot with flying actual IFR. Many of my aviation friends are dealing with growing experience with IFR. What did you do to gain experience let alone confortability with flying IFR. I know the old addage of knowing your own limits but what were your experiences with growing those experiences and comfortability. Did the upgrade in avionics, aircraft, or anything else help.

I appreciated all off your insights.

Court

 

[court_goodroe]

**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** I can't type,

Here is what I meant to close with,

I appreciate any insight,

COURT

 

[B-J-J Fighter]

IFR

I started off by setiing personal mins for myself. First time I took off in IMC in was 1000/5 ovc, next time 800/3, next time 500/2, then 200/1/2.

I slowly built my confidence. I felt like the way I did after I got laid the 1st time when I popped out and it was 200 and 1/2. Great feeling remember both events like they were yesterday.

 

[upndsky]

The first time I flew an approach to minimums, I had 300 hours in that actual airplane, a stock '79 C-182 with nothing fancy in the panel. The familiarity I had in that airplane allowed me to concentrate on the instruments, not flying the airplane itself. The second time down to minimums was in a Baron with less than 10 hours in it. This time, though, I had a high-time pilot in the right seat to keep me honest. Both were great confidence boosters. Just be sure you know the airplane before you punch off into a low overcast.

 

[Toad4]

I am impressed with your honesty and am inclined to think that you'll be ok as long as you continue to not lie to yourself.

There is no "trick" to getting comfortable. Everytime you go IMC you will be a little more comfortable with it. I am not sure what you are flying but the greatest confidence builder that I have found is being able to trust the airplane. If you can't trust the a/c then what are you doing stapped into it. They are only boxes.

The other thing is that 135 regs are designed to help you. If the wx isn't above mins. you can't even try. There is never really a question if you follow the regs (for the most part).

Another thing is to always leave yourself an option. If you have to go missed or the wx comes down in route, know where you can go and do it. Don't second guess. The only reason to shoot the app. again is because either you screwed up or the wx improved.

Another thing that will help is always shoot the approach. IFR flying is all about procedures. The more time you do it the better and when you get to see what it looks like VFR you improve your situational awareness when you are IMC.

A lot of people like to increase min. This may not be an option if you are already flying professionally. If you can shoot the approach to 500 and 1 you can do it to 200 and 1/2. There is really no difference (in my opinion). IMC is IMC and if you loose it at 500 (or even 800) you are still screwed. Just fly the approach the same way everytime.

I hope this helps. By the way, I have approx. 450 hours of actual now and I still get a high scphincter factor on occassion. It's good to be concerned (scared?). You're less likely to do something stupid and you understand the gravity of the situation. Just don't give the fear the controls and do what you were trained to do.

 

[skyking1976]

Freight Dog IFR

The only real way to get "comfortable" is to go out there and fly in the soup. We have all gone through the motions under the hood for checkrides and I still think that it is very different under actual conditions (and night IFR for that matter).

Make sure you fly your ILS's on the GS down to 100' above TDZ. There may be a time when you will need that extra descent to get the runway environment in sight.

These guys are right on about setting personal mins. You should only take your airplane as far as you feel it safe to.

By the way... The first time you do shoot an ILS down to 200' it will scare you $h!tless, but you will start trusting the airplane more each time.

Fly Safe...
Skyking

 

[skysurfer]

Even though I did my instrument training in an IMC environment like good old Seattle, I still wasn't comfortable going solo in IMC, so I would go up with another instrument rated pilot (it really helps cut down the workload and stress of flying IMC) and get more comfortable with it, gradually flying in worse weather.

Once you've been doing it for awhile, you will start looking forward to the crummy days for an op to build up some more actual. I know that's what I will be focusing on this fall. That, and getting my night time up!

 

[FreightPup]

skysurfer,
you still flying around the Seattle area?

 

[dsee8driver]

Cargo and IFR

I used to fly Part 135 in NC for UPS and Airborne a few years ago. In the summer time you really got to fly IMC quite a bit due to thunderstorms in afternoon and low vis in am. But for the most part it was pretty much VMC. One technique I used, was to request an ILS or VOR approach into Raleigh whenever possible, even VFR cond. This helped me staying organized and kept the scan going.
Before I was flying for a living I did set personal minimums that varied with the level of comfort with the aircraft I was flying. As my career progressed I have noticed that my personal mins in general aviation a/c have actually increased over the years, although I'm pretty profficient and can fly it to 200 1/2 but WHY? Is it really worth it? I look back at the days I went flying in IMC (FOG) to build actual time in a Cherokee 6. Can't help but wonder what would have happened if I would have lots THE engine at 500'.

Even today I request ILS approaches when ever possible in VMC(with PIC's permission). I have to say that in our operations 90 % of the flying is VMC.

One of the most important things in MY opinion is to be organized. Have all the charts available to avoid having to look around for something and KNOW your limits....

Flyer

 

[Snoopy58]

If you can shoot the approach to 500 and 1 you can do it to 200 and 1/2. There is really no difference (in my opinion).

Actually, there's quite a bit of difference between 1 SM and 1/2 SM of visibility. At 200' on a 3 degree glidepath, you're more than 1/2 SM from the threashold... i.e. at your decision height you can see approach lights but you can NOT yet see the runway if your vis is no-kidding at 1/2 mile.

Having the approach lights in sight you can continue (-121, to 100'; not sure if -91 has a limit or not), but you're still flying the glideslope down. Thus the wisdom in the post advising you to always fly the GS down to 100'.

Granted, real no-kidding 1/2 mile vis is pretty rare, but it's a darned sight different from 1 mile, or IFR in VMC.

 

[Toad4]

Actually, there's quite a bit of difference between 1 SM and 1/2 SM of visibility. At 200' on a 3 degree glidepath, you're more than 1/2 SM from the threashold... i.e. at your decision height you can see approach lights but you can NOT yet see the runway if your vis is no-kidding at 1/2 mile.

Having the approach lights in sight you can continue (-121, to 100'; not sure if -91 has a limit or not), but you're still flying the glideslope down. Thus the wisdom in the post advising you to always fly the GS down to 100'.

Actually, I think that if you would look at a precision approach setup (ILS), you'll find that the OM is generally (not always) 5 nm out and is where you intercept the GS, the MM is generally (not always) .5 nm from the threshhold and the IM is generally .25 nm from the threshhold. You may leave the DH and descend to 100' above the TDZE, not 100' below the DH (small difference, no real world effect). I am cetainly not trying to start a pissing match here. These are all generalizations for simplicity's sake. My only point was this. There is no procedural difference and certainly no exponentially greater degree of difficulty in flying an ILS to 100', 200', or 500'. An incompetent pilot is equally dangerous at all altitudes. The majority of crashes in IMC are due to loss of control (often well above the ground). This indicates poor procedures and technique. The best guard for this (once again, only my opinion) is to use the procedures and techniques as often as possible. To impress on less experienced pilots that 200 & 1/2 is much more difficult is quite frankly BS. The only difference is if you look up and don't have a runway, you have to go missed. No thinking, no inching down, just go missed. Whether it is 1800 RVR or 5000 RVR, the ground is equally hard. These views do not necessarilly reflect those of the parent company or it's advertiser's.

Blue skies...

 

[skysurfer]

FreightPup-

Yes, I still am in the Seattle area. CFIing.....

Where are you from?

 

[upndsky]

The more time you do it the better and when you get to see what it looks like VFR you improve your situational awareness when you are IMC.

I agree. The first 10 or so approaches my students shoot is WITHOUT the hood. I want them to be able to visualize what an approach looks like. I want them to become comfortable with the procedure and the planning process involved without the distractions of trying to keep the blue half of the AI on top. When I got my instrument rating I was under the hood from day 1 and I always felt like I was behind the airplane. This really curbed the learning process. It's when I started flying approaches "visually" that it all came together. In the course of my instructing, I've picked up several "problem" students from other CFIs. After a couple of "visual" instrument approaches they showed a tremendous improvement. By seeing what was happening, they were able to work through the process easier. When it came time to put the hood on, the mystery of an approach was gone.

 

[Xfr8dog]

Toad4 does your Lear have a flight director on the side you're flying? i can only say from personal experience in the right seat of a Falcon 20 WITHOUT said luxuries that the last 200 feet or so are VERY touchy and difficult (certainly not impossible) and before you ask... yes i flew a profile and was properly trimmed but ... im still HAND flying a jet....