Hey B19!

[HiSpeedFlyer]

Hey, B19, how about some personal insight on the success story of a Lil' ol Union Local 1108 and their relationship with the Management of NetJets??

Huh? Whaazzat? Silence???



96% of a pilot group spoke today, and are rewriting the books on the relationship between labor and management. This is being noticed, and should be the benchmark for the future.

So, buddy boy.....whatcha got to say now?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Easy tiger.... NJ has a unique market. Very different from the public sector...

Perhaps you should call and talk to Col. Angus....

 

[FLYLOW22]

Easy tiger.... NJ has a unique market. Very different from the public sector...

Perhaps you should call and talk to Col. Angus....

I never understand what the Col. says when he tries to talk. It's almost like he talks with his mouth full. imp:


B19 will have NOTHING intelligent to add to the IBB TA results. He doesn't understand what has happened here at NetJets.

96% turnout is unheard of in the biz... unless there is a strike vote.

P.S. The rest of the biz should take a hard look at this IBB method as THE method of negotiations in the future... or not.

 

[jonjuan]

I never understand what the Col. says when he tries to talk. It's almost like he talks with his mouth full. imp:


B19 will have NOTHING intelligent to add to the IBB TA results. He doesn't understand what has happened here at NetJets.

96% turnout is unheard of in the biz... unless there is a strike vote.

P.S. The rest of the biz should take a hard look at this IBB method as THE method of negotiations in the future... or not.

Of course Col Angus did prophesize a few years ago that when things did get get better, there would be no shortage of morons to brag about it.

 

[HiSpeedFlyer]

Of course Col Angus did prophesize a few years ago that when things did get get better, there would be no shortage of morons to brag about it.

Not bragging, just pointing out to that moron there is a difference, not all unions are the same... and when he realizes this maybe he will shaddup and move on.

However, If what it takes to be happy as a professional aviator in a successful union is to be a moron, then I guess I have a few more brain cells to kill off this wekend to truly become moronic!

 

[B19 Flyer]

Hey, B19, how about some personal insight on the success story of a Lil' ol Union Local 1108 and their relationship with the Management of NetJets??

Huh? Whaazzat? Silence???



96% of a pilot group spoke today, and are rewriting the books on the relationship between labor and management. This is being noticed, and should be the benchmark for the future.

So, buddy boy.....whatcha got to say now?

The measure of a union isn't how well it sells it's product, it's how well it reacts when the times get tough. Anybody can sell a used car, but not everybody is willing to fix it when it breaks. A union is no different.

My career wasn't in jeapardy as the legacy carriers all signed record setting contracts in 2000 and early 2001, it was how poorly the unions reacted when the times got tough. All those wonderful contracts weren't worth the paper they were written on were they? When the unions dragged their feet as they always do, all the carriers either went into bankruptcy or were pushed to the edge of it. In the process there were thousands of pilots and support workers furloughed/laid off and the carriers were gutted. The concessions that were forced on the unions took away retirement, payroll benefits and work rules before they were over.

Quick action by the union could have prevented the massive losses.

Oh, and before you use the poor management line that's always used, remember that it was the same management that created the record profits that allowed the large contracts. Not just that, but it's amazing that all the legacy carriers just happened to have the same people all screw up at the same time.

I don't know the details of the TA, nor do I care. The ripple effect through the fractional industry could very well put other carriers and pilot careers at risk attempting to match them.

Congratulations on the TA. Times appear to be good.

The true measure is what happens if the economy begins to slip. You can guaranty that the union WILL drag it's feet and history will repeat itself. Be careful what you ask for.

 

[tk855]

I don't know the details of the TA, nor do I care. The ripple effect through the fractional industry could very well put other carriers and pilot careers at risk attempting to match them.

Rather contradictory don't you think? How could these wonderful management teams, the one's who were running the show during the good times, you ellude to allow this to happen? You do have one truth in the above statement, you are correct, you don't know a single thing about the TA!

 

[dash_trash]

Bob,

Retirements were not lost due to concessions, they were lost because the companies were not properly funding them ... they were short by billions. Those funds were directed, in part, to show those huge profits you speak of, which inturn allowed upper management to take a larger slice of the pie.

What management did was criminal ... they stole the retirement of the people who were there long before them and in every case, the people who are still there after they took their "Golden Parachute" while leaving the employees of the company with little to show for their years of service and hard work. It's easy to point a finger at those who were just trying to get their share of the "record profits", but management should take a good long look in the mirror. They show no shame or remorse for taking big pay-outs, all the while breaking the law, and destroying peoples retirement.

My obligation is to provide the best salary and benefits I can for me and my family. The companies obligation is to provide a business model which will support the CBA they sign. If they can't do it, they shouldn't have agreed to it ... that simple. I can't feel bad for their poor decisions ... but I can certainly feel the pain of those decisions.

 

[Hobbes]

"The true measure is what happens if the economy begins to slip."

And if you are who you say you are, you have shown yet again that you HAVE NO PLACE on these threads. The fractional industry does not ride the roller coaster of the economy like the airlines do. We are flying the richest people in the world and their travel needs do not fluctuate with the economy the way the general public's do. A rise in oil prices will not affect these folks....

A downturn in the economy will not affect this business like an airline, crawl back in your hole. Who do you work for?

 

[FLYLOW22]

Of course Col Angus did prophesize a few years ago that when things did get get better, there would be no shortage of morons to brag about it.

No bragging here... in a mean-spirited way at all.

I am proud of what this company has accomplished (notice I didn't say pilot group). We all could not have accomplished this historic contract without BOTH SIDES coopreating fullly.

I have never heard of anything close.

Just spreading the news dude.

Cheers.

 

[HiSpeedFlyer]

"The measure of a union isn't how well it sells it's product, it's how well it reacts when the times get tough. Anybody can sell a used car, but not everybody is willing to fix it when it breaks. A union is no different."


My dear B19,... My point is that simply here is an example of a Union and Management working together to benefit each other.... no lining of coatpockets from retirement coffers, no "Lets get paid so much that they will bleed to death" mentality, no stall n give them nothing tacticts...... 1108 and NJ management did this together, with no animosity, caveats, nor strike deadlines looming. They did it together to form a cohesive, well oiled MACHINE, poised to dominate in the next 5-10 years as the benchmark of this industry. Even if there is a downturn in our sector.
Who knows?? This could be what will happen in the future, other companies take note, and see it as a money saving tactict to be cordial and get along (well, maybe not the Texas Mafia AMR... but I digress) with the labor. Pipe dream? Who knows? But the foundation has been laid.
Once again, my dear B19, I am truly sorry it didn't work out for you and your union affiliation in the past, But damn, son, when you gonna realize we don't want to hear your negativity in this forum anymore?


On a more positive note, Here's to the brothers n sisters at FLOPS..... may some of this cheer be spread to you all!! Good luck and stay strong!

 

[Ultra Grump]

The ripple effect through the fractional industry could very well put other carriers and pilot careers at risk attempting to match them.

This statement proves you are a fraud. I fervently hope exactly what you say comes to pass! I certainly am not as magnanimous to my competitors as you apparently are (how un-management-ly of you!). If our contract somehow forces our competition out of business, the better for NetJets and the better for me. Those jobs won't disappear, they'll just shift to us as our market share increases. Management's wet dream, right? Oh that's right, you wouldn't know - fraud.

 

[fischman]

"The measure of a union isn't how well it sells it's product, it's how well it reacts when the times get tough. Anybody can sell a used car, but not everybody is willing to fix it when it breaks. A union is no different."


My dear B19,... My point is that simply here is an example of a Union and Management working together to benefit each other.... no lining of coatpockets from retirement coffers, no "Lets get paid so much that they will bleed to death" mentality, no stall n give them nothing tacticts...... 1108 and NJ management did this together, with no animosity, caveats, nor strike deadlines looming. They did it together to form a cohesive, well oiled MACHINE, poised to dominate in the next 5-10 years as the benchmark of this industry. Even if there is a downturn in our sector.
Who knows?? This could be what will happen in the future, other companies take note, and see it as a money saving tactict to be cordial and get along (well, maybe not the Texas Mafia AMR... but I digress) with the labor. Pipe dream? Who knows? But the foundation has been laid.
Once again, my dear B19, I am truly sorry it didn't work out for you and your union affiliation in the past, But damn, son, when you gonna realize we don't want to hear your negativity in this forum anymore?


On a more positive note, Here's to the brothers n sisters at FLOPS..... may some of this cheer be spread to you all!! Good luck and stay strong!

Well said.

 

[WabiSabi]

ScaB19
A contract is not a "product" you ignoramus, and, it isn't sold. It is negotiated then the membership votes on it. If there is any "product" it is really a service and that service is representation.

The times were bad at NetJets before the contract and the IBT performed quite well. Is NJ profitable? Are NJ's pilots the most well compensated in the industry. Now the times are bad at FLOPS and the IBT is certainly "measuring" up, management is not.

I don't normally result to ad hominems but, if you truly believe the horse$hit you say, then you are truly an idiot.

 

[FLYLOW22]

And another sidenote here...

After reading B19s post I can assure you that he is NOT an employee of NJA (NetJets Anything).

He speaks from either a position of ignorance or a flawed position that he is paid to envoke. Either way, B19 and his views here are irrelivant.

He can google millions of webpages to try and find supporting sites, "facts", tidbits and nuggets that supposedly back up his anti-Union position but at the end of the day the facts are undisputed.

NetJets won. The other pilot groups won (by the fact that the bar got reset higher through COOPERATIVE means). The entire industry won.

IBB is a process whereby both sides give something not through the process of indian sunburns, arm wrestling, Section 6 or any other uncomfortable process. We wanted things, the company wanted things. Both sides gave something, both sides got back EVEN MORE... that's precisely what makes this TA special.

To my knowledge, we are the only aviation company to have every used the IBB concept to complete an entire contract.

Historic...

B19's comments are out of position, not applicable and ignorant at best... He can't help it until he opens his eyes objectively to acknowledge what has occurd here.

Until then, pity him like the village lepar. This was NO UAL 2000 contract (that's a good thing). We gave some back to the golden goose... but we got much more back in return collectively.

 

[FLYLOW22]

The measure of a union isn't how well it sells it's product, it's how well it reacts when the times get tough.

The true measure is what happens if the economy begins to slip. You can guaranty that the union WILL drag it's feet and history will repeat itself. Be careful what you ask for.

When we run out of continents to expand to, we'll test your theory (opinion).

Check back in 50 years please.

 

[fischman]

When we run out of continents to expand to, we'll test your theory (opinion).

Check back in 50 years please.

Asia should be up and running within 10 years. Europe is making money.
North America is making money
Antartica is a frozen wasteland with no rich people.
That only leaves 3 continents left!!!

 

[Diesel]

The measure of a union isn't how well it sells it's product, it's how well it reacts when the times get tough.

The true measure is what happens if the economy begins to slip. You can guaranty that the union WILL drag it's feet and history will repeat itself. Be careful what you ask for.

I take exception to this statement. I was at NJA when we hit 9/11. Guess what we didn't lay off... we kept on trucking.. the pilots, the union, and the company made sure the company got through the tough times. Did we take pay cuts... nope... Did we lose anything... nope.

Times got tough. Probably one of the toughest times this country has seen in quite a while.

Guess what we are still here and growing.

Nice try.

 

[NETFLIER]

I just flew one of the top guys at netjets and his statement was:

"its not about the customer" ---Meaning---

We as well as the other companies have plenty of customers. There is an actual waiting list for netjets. When we are 25% in price higher than everyone else and we are still growing we really are not competing with anyone. It has always been about who can offer the best level of service in the industry and we(netjets) are going to work even harder on doing that.

The pilots have a new contract and thats great, but if we take our service up a couple of levels, we will secure our futures here.

Everyone in this frational industry should be paid close the same, and that includes the benefits as well.