Help....career instructing

[euroboy]

Hi, guys

Can anyone help!!!

I’m moving to south Texas next summer and would like to become a career instructor (as opposed to a desk-jockey ).

The question is, what are the general prospects like – such as pay (I know it’s initially quite low $10000 ish??) but with MEI, MEII etc what can I expect (approx). I can stomach an initially low income, as long as it improves eventually.

I assume the larger branded schools pay the most,

I guess the thing is I’m giving up a quite well paid avionics/IT job and am a bit worried as far as my long term options are concerned – if I choose to fly (and of course that’s what I want to do!) - what do y'all think???

Thanks, for any help

 

[mar]

I don't speak Texan...

...What does "y'all" mean?

Let me be honest, I wasn't even going to respond to this question until I noticed it's your first post.

So, welcome to Flightinfo, the place where bored and frustrated pilots verbally (well, not exactly I guess) abuse each other.

If you want to get the Jerry Springer version of what's going on in the business these days, I suggest you hop on over to the General Forum and look up a string called "Pilot Career."

Or just do a search.

Or I can save you the trouble, here's a synopsis:

Hundreds of pilots for every job; wages lower than ever; no recovery in sight; pack a lunch, it's gonna be a long hike.

Good luck my friend

 

[BrokeAssPilot]

Word to that,


beats the hell out of a real job if you love to fly!! and by golly you have to love it.

 

[YaMama]

In my opinion ...

Flight instruction is great and all, but it's no way to earn a living.

There are just too many people trying to get into aviation, or stay in aviation on a casual basis, for the available demand to drive salaries to a reasonable level.

Potential exceptions:

There is a small number of big-name schools (maybe a dozen?) scattered around the country who want good, long term instructors, and are willing to pay decent money for them (if you consider $30-40K decent). How do you feel about Bakersfield?

I've also heard rumors of independant CFIs who manage to establish a nationwide reputation for themselves after years of instructing, and are able to attract big $$$ clients who will travel (or pay the instructor to travel) because they're considered the cream of the CFI crop. I'm guessing this would be tough without (1) some real-world aviation experience outside of instructing, (2) owning an airplane or two, and (3) knowing how to market yourself. And obviously you have to be a dam good instructor too.

CFII and MEI will make you a more versatile instructor, but your competition (22 year-olds who are living with their parents) will most likely have them as well, so it's not much to hang your hat on.

If you want my advice, stick with the well-paying job, see if you can cut it back to maybe 30 hours a week, and instruct in your spare time. That way you'll be making decent money, be quenching your thirst for aviation, and be doing it little enough to keep it fun and exciting. I know it's hard to imagine when you've never had a flying job, but you can get burned out on this just like anything else (especially if you have to be at the @$%# airport 80 hours a week just to make ends meet). Yes you'll have the occasional magical moment in the air, but that's thin comfort when your boss has been b!tching at you all day, you're driving your crappy car home to your crappy apartment, with no health insurance, and not even enough money to go out and have a few beers.

 

[bobbysamd]

Career instructors

The industry needs dedicated professional flight instructors. I, for one, appreciate that you want to make that commitment.

There are, in fact, a number of well-paying instructing jobs that would be open to you after you build some experience. For openers, Airstaff, Inc. in Bakersfield, California, pays decent money to start and good benies. I know the place because I have visited there, had an interview lined up there, and have a friend who worked there. Airstaff, also known as International Flight Training Academy, has state-of-the-art facilities, excellent airplanes, and excellent students.

Another example is Air Training Center Arizona in Goodyear (Phoenix). ATCA is IFTA's direct ancestor. I know it, too; I interviewed there and was offered a job, and had three friends who worked there. Same type of facility. It trains Lufthansa and other foreign airline students.

You don't necessarily need real-world experience to work at either place. All my professional aviation experience was flight instructing, and they were interested in me. Two of my friends who got jobs at ATCA had only instructing experience.

There are other opportunities at such places as colleges and universities. You would likely start off at the bottom of the ladder and work your way up, but many of these jobs pay well and might offer what you seek. It helps if you are enterprising.

Hope these points help. Good luck with your plans.

 

[TRLpilot]

i'm curious to know more about the large flight schools/academies that have career instructors. pay seems to be in the $30k-40k range but am curious what the worklife is like. what's a typical workday like, flight hours, ground school instruction, off holidays, some weekends? i know each school is different. i see in bakersfield you can train for nippon and some other asian carriers, are there any schools that cater to the latin american market?

 

[bobbysamd]

Foreign airline school workday

what's a typical workday like, flight hours, ground school instruction, off holidays, some weekends?

I recall at Airline Training Center Arizona that there were two shifts. One shift worked 0600-1200 and the other worked 1200-1800. Shifts rotated every two weeks. I do not believe that ATCA flight instructors taught ground school; in fact, they might have taken it in Germany and all they did in Arizona was fly. Shift adjustments would be made for night flying.

I don't know about shifts at IFTA.

At IASCO in Napa, where JAL pilots were trained, the workday was something like 0700-1700, with adjustments made for night flying. IASCO did not work on holidays.

As you can see, instructors at the foreign airline academies work relatively normal hours (though I would not have cared especially for my shift changing every two weeks but would have lived with it). Instructors get excellent benefits as well. My friend at ATCA had Lufthansa pass privileges and flew to Germany. He told me that during his trip the captain learned that he was on board and invited him to come up front to the flight deck to watch the crew execute the approach. Try getting that kind of respect at most any large American-oriented school!

These are really good jobs if you enjoy instructing, if not from the financial angle then from the respect you receive. I would submit if more American-type schools treated their instructors with respect that more new pilots would want to be career instructors and flight instruction would be better. Don't hold your breath about it happening, though. There will always be a plantation mentality at most American flight schools.

 

[YaMama]

Sure the industry needs career instructors, and I too think it's great that somebody would want to do it. I would consider it myself if I could make $50K living where I want to live, being treated as a professional, good working conditions, and straight up 40 hours a week, not this "You're not working when the weather is bad so you're not getting paid, better get your butt in here on Sunday" B.S.

However the reality of this marketplace is (1) an oversupply of CFIs, and (2) an unfortunate tendency to compete on price rather than quality. Things started getting a little better toward the end of the last hiring boom, and we may see further improvement with the next one, but I don't see the fundamentals changing anytime soon.

 

[euroboy]

Thanks for the replies guys (especially bobbysamd), at least now I know it’s a almost a practical possibility rather than just a stepping stone. Although I guess I guess I may still need to supplement my income.

I guess these foreign schools could be the way to go,

I assume these schools don't just look at your flying hours when considering hiring, any ideas what the average instructor profile is??? (or maybe there isn't one)


Now all I need is an FAA licence and some instructing time……

Cheers

 

[bobbysamd]

Foreign airline school quals

The Airstaff link I posted should give you an idea as to the mins. More realistic might be credentials similar to regional mins, i.e., 1500 total-500 multi, though you probably can do it with far less multi. You should have all your instructor ratings. They'll look at overall instructing experience and your pass/fail rate. I think it helped me for my ATCA interview that I had instructed at ERAU.

In your case, your European credentials might be a good discussion point which could give you an edge. You might also have an edge if you are multilingual.

Hope that helps some more. Good luck with your plans.

PS-FYI, I have been provided with another link to IFTA, http://www.ifta.aero. Hope that also helps.

 

[euroboy]

Thanks again bobbysamd

That's a great help

 

[Limeyflyer]

One of my former co-workers just moved out to Airstaff in Bakersfield. He seems to be enjoying it from what I have heard. Good luck with your job search. If you are up for cold weather during the winters nad nice durings summers check out Tradewinds Aviation (www.tradewindsaviation.biz). They are always taking resumes for potential flight instructors. You usually flight instruct for 1-1.5 yrs and then get moved into a King Air, and then into the Hawkers after that. Great company if you want a corporat job ,which now I remember that you don't. **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** that was maybe a waste of typing on this post.

 

[euroboy]

Thanks for that Limey, a stint in a king air or 125 would do no harm I'm sure

Although, I think I would fall foul of the background check (>12500 right???), not having a history in the USA (no dodgy past I assure you). Anyway that's something I'll have to look into.


Thank again....

 

[Limeyflyer]

No problem mate. PM me if you need any info. I don't mind helping a fellow countryman