Helo Time

[mudkow60]

Hello-

I am posting this here to see if I can get help from other military folks-
I was wondering if anyone could help me with an issue I have. I am a helicopter pilot in the Navy, and would like to get my ATP. I have about 1800 flight hours, of which 228 are private fixed wing, and 130 is PIC time. Also, of the 1800 hours, about 135 is military fixed wing (training). My questions are:

-Is there a way to count the military fixed wing time as PIC time, since it is not divided as such in the military log?

-Is there a way to count helicopter aircraft commander time as PIC time?

-What options do I have (other than spending lots of money to build up my PIC time so I can get my ATP?

Thanks,

Matt

 

[mudkow60]

Pat...


You are familiar with the progression of a Naval Aviator's career... Deployable squadron, shore tour, SEA TOUR!!!

Can't get here from there.

 

[mudkow60]

I have done the reaserch and I am getting out... no questions. I would rather take my chances than go back to sea.


You can give me your opinion after you have done a cruise or two.

 

[sardaddy]

Mudkow,


I believe that the Navy logs time pretty much the way the CG does since we use Navy log books.So with that, it is pretty easy.

Any time you have logged as FP time (time you were on the controls) counts as PIC time. My suggestion is read the FAR/AIM (you will need to know that stuff for the ATP anyway) and you will see that it is pretty well defined.

 

[CGPILOT]

KOW, Ever think about the Coast Guard? We get some guys from the Navy. Drop me an e-mail if you are interested.

 

[mudkow60]

Thanks all.


CGPILOT- I just sent you a PM... basically, if I could get an age waiver, I would join the CG in a heartbeat. Missed the cut by one day!

If you think you can help, I am all ears!

 

[skiddriver]

Matt,

First, your First Pilot time in flight school counts as PIC time if:

1) You had an FAA rating for the aircraft you flew and there was no type rating required (civilian equivalent). T-34 FP time counts as PIC time if you had a PPL SEL prior to logging the military time.
2) -or- If you were rated as an aircraft commander (valid NATOPS check).
3) -or- If you were on a solo flight.

If you were like me, no FAA license and no NATOPS check, it only counts toward the total time and XC time reqts (except for your solo time).

The experience requirements you have to meet are (from Part 61.159):

Aircraft time (helo time counts):
1500 hours TT (you've got it)
500 hours XC time (you have it, but you need to be able to show it. The flight had to travel at least 50 nm straight-line from point of origin, no landing at a second location required. Go back through your logbook and identify which flights those were. Make sure their total time equals 500 hours).
100 hours night time (you've got it).
75 hours actual/simulated instrument time. (you've got it)

Airplane time:
250 hours PIC (you're short)
100 hours PIC cross country (maybe you've got it, depending on what you have flown civilian)
25 hours PIC night time (maybe you've got it, depending on what you have flown civilian)

The big question is do you have a Commercial MEL rating and an airplane instrument rating? Your profile says commercial fixed, but there is a difference between Comm MEL & SEL for the purposes of getting an ATP. I'm a little concerned that you don't meet the ATP eligibility requirements. To get an ATP using the military clause (which you will need to use if you don't have a commercial MEL license), you have to have, in the previous 12 calendar months, in the category and class of aircraft you are applying for (1) held a NATOPS check, (2) flown at least 10 hours PIC time, and (3) had a military instrument check in the category (fixed wing), or held a civilian airplane instrument rating.

So you would need, in the last 12 months, a C-12 (for example) NATOPS check, 10 hours FPT, and either a civilian airplane instrument rating or an military instrument check ride in a fixed-wing aircraft.

If you don't either meet the military equivalency requirements, or have a Comm MEL, you're going to need to get that commercial ticket before you try for your ATP.

Read through Part 61.73 and 61.159 carefully. Good luck.

 

[mudkow60]

Thanks... I did have a private lisence when I started T-34 flight training, so that may help. If I understand what you are saying, as such I can log my First Pilot T-34 time as PIC. Also, I have a commercial rating on my FAA ticket. I also have a multi, but it says VFR only. Not sure if that helps.


Pat, you can have my Vette for 60K- that way, I can by a plane.

 

[psysicx]

What about a full time reserve slot?Or joining the air guard/reserves?

 

[mudkow60]

That is not as easy as you would think. I am trying for that too.

 

[skiddriver]

Thanks... I did have a private lisence when I started T-34 flight training, so that may help. If I understand what you are saying, as such I can log my First Pilot T-34 time as PIC. Also, I have a commercial rating on my FAA ticket. I also have a multi, but it says VFR only. Not sure if that helps.

Yep, that helps, you should be able to use your T-34 FPT as airplane PIC for the ATP.

But, when you say you have a "commercial rating on my FAA ticket", do you mean that it says:

Commercial Privledges: Airplane Multiengine Land (VFR only)?

How did you get your commercial MEL and SEL ratings? Did you not get an Instrument Airplane rating added to your license following primary at flight school?

If you can be a little more specific we might be able to tell you what you need to do, but right now it looks like you need to get an airplane intrument rating before you can get your ATP. Maybe you could just type the priviledges entries from your FAA license here?

 

[psysicx]

Is your second sea tour a non flying tour?

 

[mudkow60]

Aside from being a helo pilot in the Navy, my other FAA ratings are (as shown on my liscence):


Commercial Pilot
Airplane Single Engine Land Rotorcraft-Helicopter
Instrument Airplane and Helicopter
Private Privileges
Airplane Multiengile Land

Limitations

Airplane Multiengine VFR Only

That said, what do I need for the ATP?

Thanks.

And yes, after your shore tour, you have a fun, non-flying tour.

 

[skiddriver]

Matt,

You need a commercial multi and an instrument rating for that multi ticket as prerequisites for a ATP MEL. You currently only have a PPL MEL.

You can use your GI Bill to get your commercial for the multi. I'm not sure what the requirements are to add your multi to your instrument rating, the school can fill that in for you.

If you have any way to get a NATOPS check and 10 FPT hours in a C-12 (impossible I know) you can bypass having to do the commercial at a civilian school and just get the military equivalency.

Good luck.