Heading to the airlines - soon?

[LXApilot]

"Heading to the airlines - soon"... thats the title of a message I just recieved from a great friend and very respected flying buddy of mine. But seriously, how can you guys that are heading towards 121 cockpits at the regionals trully be excited about it? Lets talk pay - whoops! $18,400 your first years quals you for food stamps... work rules? Dont worry, Duane Woerth has got you all cov... oops, nevermind that either. ASA, ExpressJet, Eagle all are in or are about to be in major contract negotiations... management plays you against the very pilot group that you want to work for (majors), long upgrade times, lousy scheduling, long periods of reserve duty, and a continuous race towards the basement of this industry. I believe there is either a MAJOR labor war brewing in the industry- GOD I HOPE SO- or that management has gotten our number and is taking it to the bank- and the payscales of the major airline pilot groups- with extreme prejudices. If you can even call these regional feeders "airlines" i know we've debated that. 10 years at Chataqua flying the 190 [not even on the propety yet] and you'll make approx $75k per year as captain. Fly 10 years in the corporate world or at a skilled position at any major company and you'll break that number easily. This is not flame bait- and definately not meant to slam you guys heading towards the jet-a equipment in the flight levels, but seriously- whats the plan? Keep accepting all the concessions/pimping/work rules/degradation of the profession so you guys can wear your uniform and tell girls you are an 'airline pilot'? I hung on the airport fence my whole life and dreamed of one day flying the 727 or dc10 at a major, but it wont happen. and unless we all band together one day to say enough is enough, that profession is long gone. i guess it makes sense- all the 'older folks' always told us our generation was no good because we never were willing to work for anything or stand up for what we believed in. all of this me me me attitude wont get us anywhere but flying for comair for our entire careers. I love flying and i cant imagine doing anything else- but I want to make enough to afford a family and my own airplane one day- and you cant easily do that at ASA. So lets all get going and do something about it- next time you jumpseat on the major heading to work- tip the captain and f/o because they'll be watching the jungle jets fly over from the welfare office very soon. They built this profession for us - now lets defend it! Wishing everyone the best- just trying to stir up some emotion here-

Fly Safe-
Colin

 

[labbats]

Everyone's job sucks, what makes you so special?

Call up a steel mill. Ask how their year has been. Or the telecom industry. Or just about anyone. No one likes a whiner. Ever hear of a cycle?

 

[BigPappa]

Or you could go fly corporate (where they don't really need a plane) and last for approx. 2.8 yrs. according to NBAA studies. Been there done there done that three times. My last job was as a hawker 800XP Captain and still the same story, always sucking up to the people, no schedule, dealing with their mood swings and divorces ultimately just going from pay-check to pay-check. I am roling my dices now on the 121 flying as I am about to start class!


Good luck with what ever route you choose!

 

[FN FAL]

Everyone's job sucks, what makes you so special?

Call up a steel mill. Ask how their year has been. Or the telecom industry. Or just about anyone. No one likes a whiner. Ever hear of a cycle?

Better yet, they need people down at the meat processing plant...ever de-bone a chicken?

 

[Dash8]

Better yet, they need people down at the meat processing plant...ever de-bone a chicken?

the guys at 'Mythbusters' know how, with a large tank of compressed air and a large steel tube

 

[FN FAL]

the guys at 'Mythbusters' know how, with a large tank of compressed air and a large steel tube

Wow...what will they think of next? I always thought they used de-boning knives, but it sounds a lot like how they do "Puffed Wheat" and "Puffed Rice" over there at Quaker Oats.

http://www.vaughnmonroesociety.org/resume/ADquaker.htm

By the way, if they shoot rice and wheat out of guns, what the heck is a Quaker doing on the front of the box? But anyhooo...

[aviation reference]Doesn't that guy in the Puffed Wheat advertisement look a lot like Chuck Yeager?[/aviation reference]

 

[PacoPollo]

"Heading to the airlines - soon"... thats the title of a message I just recieved from a great friend and very respected flying buddy of mine. But seriously, how can you guys that are heading towards 121 cockpits at the regionals trully be excited about it? Lets talk pay - whoops! $18,400 your first years quals you for food stamps... work rules? Dont worry, Duane Woerth has got you all cov... oops, nevermind that either. ASA, ExpressJet, Eagle all are in or are about to be in major contract negotiations... management plays you against the very pilot group that you want to work for (majors), long upgrade times, lousy scheduling, long periods of reserve duty, and a continuous race towards the basement of this industry. I believe there is either a MAJOR labor war brewing in the industry- GOD I HOPE SO- or that management has gotten our number and is taking it to the bank- and the payscales of the major airline pilot groups- with extreme prejudices. If you can even call these regional feeders "airlines" i know we've debated that. 10 years at Chataqua flying the 190 [not even on the propety yet] and you'll make approx $75k per year as captain. Fly 10 years in the corporate world or at a skilled position at any major company and you'll break that number easily. This is not flame bait- and definately not meant to slam you guys heading towards the jet-a equipment in the flight levels, but seriously- whats the plan? Keep accepting all the concessions/pimping/work rules/degradation of the profession so you guys can wear your uniform and tell girls you are an 'airline pilot'? I hung on the airport fence my whole life and dreamed of one day flying the 727 or dc10 at a major, but it wont happen. and unless we all band together one day to say enough is enough, that profession is long gone. i guess it makes sense- all the 'older folks' always told us our generation was no good because we never were willing to work for anything or stand up for what we believed in. all of this me me me attitude wont get us anywhere but flying for comair for our entire careers. I love flying and i cant imagine doing anything else- but I want to make enough to afford a family and my own airplane one day- and you cant easily do that at ASA. So lets all get going and do something about it- next time you jumpseat on the major heading to work- tip the captain and f/o because they'll be watching the jungle jets fly over from the welfare office very soon. They built this profession for us - now lets defend it! Wishing everyone the best- just trying to stir up some emotion here-

Fly Safe-
Colin

sound like a regional reject to me!

 

[BackSoon05]

Labbatts is right, this biz is cyclical. For those of us in the midst of it that still have employment, put your head down and go to work. That is the ONLY way to get through it. For those of us on furlough for the umpteenth time, find something, anything to do to keep you tied in. New guys, keep quiet. You wanted in and this is the industry in "...the worst of times."
Nothing ruins a trip more than from block out to block in, complaints about the company/industry/management/union/etc.. Chat about flying or whatever, just bite your tongue when it comes to the complaints.

To IMPROVE the situation, the unions can take a few stands. Stands in the regionals on rest/duty issues for safety. Minimum staffing. Compensation for 2-5 year F/O's at the regional level.

Of course, at the major level there's not a whole lot that can be done. LOA's. Get 70-90 seat pay scales in place guys. It's a second level scope. Stand firm on scope. I'm a regional guy, and I DO NOT want to fly 70 and 90 seat equipment at my airline. I don't care if thats all I get to fly, but I want to do it at mainline.

I don't believe everybody has to walk to help turn this industry around. I think with a few small victories in compensation and work rules we can set ourselves up to succeed long term.

Everything above is just IMHO. But I know my votes will go to support the above, and I will stuff the suggestion box. Thats all I can really do.

Good luck to everyone

 

[Brett Hull]

Everyone's job sucks, what makes you so special?

Call up a steel mill. Ask how their year has been. Or the telecom industry. Or just about anyone. No one likes a whiner. Ever hear of a cycle?

Translation: Bend over and take it up the @$$ like a man. I still get to tell the girls I fly a jet, even though I can't really afford to take them out anywhere except Mickey D's.

 

[labbats]

Translation: I don't like being in crew lounges or 4-day trips with whiners. That's what is bringing down this industry. Sissies.

 

[Brett Hull]

Translation: I don't like being in crew lounges or 4-day trips with whiners. That's what is bringing down this industry. Sissies.

Because it sure isn't the people willing to fly jets for food-stamp wages. But hey, it's all o.k. because it's all in the name of "paying your dues". Double

 

[apcooper]

To all the single male pilots out there.........

This might help you all forget about the $hitty problems in this industry. Instead of biatching about all the problems when on a tour of duty you might want to check out this e-book on how to date and pickup women. This might come in handy when at a hotel bar in nowhere North Dakota!! Hope I hijacked this thread in a benifical manner.

 

[TIGV]

I find this more beneficial:


http://www.forsize.com/


If you don't like the whiners, whip it out an beat 'em unconscious with it

Thread restored !

 

[Goose Egg]

Because it sure isn't the people willing to fly jets for food-stamp wages. But hey, it's all o.k. because it's all in the name of "paying your dues".

I really, really, really did not want to have to be the one to do this, but I must point something out; Supply and demand. How can you possibly expect higher pay when there are a zillion other guys that A) Can do what you do just as well, and B) would take your place in a hearbeat?

What's wrong with paying dues? Success and security aren't instantaneous in any other line of work (with the possible exception of janitoring), why should flying be any different? You were expecting something else?

-Goose

 

[WillowRunVortex]

I dont fly for a regional,,,but I think management solved the problem of you guys not having enough money to take a woman on a date by sending you guys to places where there are no women or at least no people that look like women,,,hehe

 

[Brett Hull]

What's wrong with paying dues?

-Goose

Not a thing. I've had plenty of early mornings and late nights flight instructing, as well as the pager going off at midnight and having to fly freight to god knows where in the ice in a baron uphill both ways. But it's got to stop somewhere. How long do you have to keep paying your dues? When does it end? When you get to a Major? If so, there's going to be a lot of people paying their dues until they retire. Flying a 50+ seat jet aircraft should NOT require any more "paying of dues". They give you the responsibility of being a required crewmember, you should make them give you the pay.

You guys can squawk "Supply and Demand...Supply and Demand" like a parrot until you turn blue, but the bottom line is they don't pay you squat because you let them. It's not going to get any better, either, until you stop justifying it. You guys are the best thing management could ask for.

 

[mayday1]

You guys can squawk "Supply and Demand...Supply and Demand" like a parrot until you turn blue, but the bottom line is they don't pay you squat because you let them.

right.. supply and demand. supply = willing labor force.

 

[Goose Egg]

Flying a 50+ seat jet aircraft should NOT require any more "paying of dues"

I agree with you to a point, but you can't tell me that an RJ gig is as "bad" as instructing or flying a Baron in the ice. Sure, I know that you guys work hard and spend a lot of time away, but ain't that what you signed up for? And does not your pay and working conditions improve with higher seniority?

You guys are the best thing management could ask for.

I dunno, I kind of like being gainfully employed. The fact that it is a job where airplanes are involved is just icing (no pun intended) on the cake. Isn't that the quid pro quo? You provide a meaningful service for the company, and they compensate you monetarily for what they think that service is worth? And if you don't like the price that the firm is paying for your services, are you not free to take them elsewhere?

-Goose

 

[Brett Hull]

I agree with you to a point, but you can't tell me that an RJ gig is as "bad" as instructing or flying a Baron in the ice. Sure, I know that you guys work hard and spend a lot of time away, but ain't that what you signed up for? And does not your pay and working conditions improve with higher seniority?

I'm not trying to tell you that is it, although you get to sleep in your own bed everynight when you're a CFI. And just to make sure we're all on the same page here, I'm not an airline pilot, just a corporate puke. I don't work hard and I don't spend a lot of time away. But the paychecks are pretty nice! I've put my money where my mouth is and refuse to work for substandard pay.

I dunno, I kind of like being gainfully employed. The fact that it is a job where airplanes are involved is just icing (no pun intended) on the cake. Isn't that the quid pro quo? You provide a meaningful service for the company, and they compensate you monetarily for what they think that service is worth? And if you don't like the price that the firm is paying for your services, are you not free to take them elsewhere?

-Goose

I like being gainfully employed as well. I also liked being able to build a brand new house during my 1st year with my company. The regionals (and I use that term loosely - DEN to BHM isn't really "regional") pay you for your services the least amount they can get away with paying you. Why? You kinda said it yourself:

The fact that it is a job where [Jet] airplanes are involved is just icing (no pun intended) on the cake.

Honestly now, don't you think they can afford just a little more than 18K for the 1st year? Airline pilots, even 1st year regional guys, provide an extremely meaningful service to the company, you just won't give yourselves credit for it. He!!, the airplane doesn't move without you. Don't you think you should be compensated more than the guy with three teeth spitting on your Big Mac at McDonalds?

p.s., I apologize to everyone for the incessant "quoting".

 

[BD King]

Whine, whine, Whine. Ya either love it or ya leave it. It's like a lousy wife. Aviation has probably treated me no worse than wife number one, BUT...........aviation has been a way of life that has been (45 years now?!!?) comfortable. Like an old shoe or a bottle of 21 year old Scotch.

If any of ya think times are sticky, take a look at the bio of Dean Smith, and his booK THE SEAT OF MY PANTS. Check into Ernie Gann's bio of A HOSTAGE TO FORTUNE. DO IT BECAUSE YA LOVE IT.

 

[Frontier1]

Better yet, they need people down at the meat processing plant...ever de-bone a chicken?

**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** like this is what drives the pay to crap levels. Good job.

 

[The_Russian]

"How I Went From An Average Nebraska Nerd To An Adult Film Star With Ungodly Pipe In Less Than 3 Months!"


Thanks TIGV!!!! You really helped a brother out. I guess now I'll have to get a jet job so I can tell women I am an autopilot pu$$y. Then me and little Mellissa will be off to Mac Donalds!!!!

 

[The_Russian]

A winner!!!!

Not a thing. I've had plenty of early mornings and late nights flight instructing, as well as the pager going off at midnight and having to fly freight to god knows where in the ice in a baron uphill both ways. But it's got to stop somewhere. How long do you have to keep paying your dues? When does it end? When you get to a Major? If so, there's going to be a lot of people paying their dues until they retire. Flying a 50+ seat jet aircraft should NOT require any more "paying of dues". They give you the responsibility of being a required crewmember, you should make them give you the pay.

You guys can squawk "Supply and Demand...Supply and Demand" like a parrot until you turn blue, but the bottom line is they don't pay you squat because you let them. It's not going to get any better, either, until you stop justifying it. You guys are the best thing management could ask for.

Right on man. I completely agree with you. Time to not let management push us around anymore. Let's strike. It's time to. Our fathers would have.

 

[Goose Egg]

And just to make sure we're all on the same page here, I'm not an airline pilot, just a corporate puke. I don't work hard and I don't spend a lot of time away. But the paychecks are pretty nice!

It looks as if we're on the exact same page. From where I sit, the regionals look like the proverbial "wheel of death." (But I was thinking that you were flying at a regional. Thanks for the clarification.)

Honestly now, don't you think they can afford just a little more than 18K for the 1st year?

Yeah, I do. Although, that would admittedly be a pay increase for me.

-Goose

edit: Go 'Wings!!!

 

[FN FAL]

**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** like this is what drives the pay to crap levels. Good job.

Hahahah...I bet you have a Quaker on the front of your box of cereal.

[homer simpson]Hmmmm...puffed wheat, it's shot from guns![/homer simpson]