Hawker 4000?

[TMMT]

Anyone here crew one?

Looks like we might be ditching the Lear 60 for one by the end of the year, boss seems impressed with it and has authorized the purchase of one, new or a lightly used model.

I've never had any exposure to Hawkers of any type, so whats the general opinion?

Thanks.

 

[NCherches]

Saw one in SMO the other day. I knew it was a Hawker from the Cockpit windows but it looked kind of like a CL300/Citation X and Hawker hybrid...

I talked to the crew and they loved flying the airplane however they thought the aircraft's galley is simply too small for a plane with that kind of range. Also there is VERY limited flight attendant seating/workspace - something that you would probably want on a plane with a range of over 3000 NM. Other than that they loved the avionics. The Challenger 300 has similar numbers I believe but also isn't too Flight Attendant 'friendly'... that's these guys' only beaf with the plane.

 

[johnsonrod]

Talon Air out of FRG operates 2-3 H4000s. Perhaps someone from Talon who frequents these boards can chime in.

 

[NCherches]

...This aircraft does have a nasty past... Remember the Hawker Horizon that was suppose to take delivery around 2006?

 

[TMMT]

...This aircraft does have a nasty past... Remember the Hawker Horizon that was suppose to take delivery around 2006?

Nasty past?

I'm familiar its been long in coming, I recall first reading about it Pro Pilot in the late 90's as the Hawker Horizon.

But what has made its past troubled?

 

[NCherches]

...A lot of time when a company changes names (or changes the name of a product) you want to remove a nasty taste in consumer's mouths... Some examples of this are: AIG, Value-jet, and soon BP I would bet. They had to change the name from Horizon to 4000 because of the issue's the horizon had.

Speaking of name changes... Beechcraft, Raytheon, Beech/Hawker ... I don't see Cessna changing their name anytime soon.

Just my opinion... Argue if you want

 

[spxdriver]

I flew a Hawker 4000 on a demo flight. It's a nice airplane, spacious cabin, with good runway numbers. Climb performance seemed pretty strong, but in the mid-30's with anti-ice on, it was fairly anemic.

The avionics are far behind where they should be; no charts on screen, no takeoff/landing computations available via the MCDU, and several erroneous CAS messages on the demo flight. Supposedly all those issues are being worked on.

There is quite a bit of Hawker 4000 demo activity at the hangar in ICT. The company badly wants and needs the airplane to sell. Thus far, sales in the US have been very slow. Most of the leadership at Hawker Beech have been recruited from Gulfstream over the last 12 months. There seems to be a significant change of leadership going on there, with positions being added what seemed like weekly for a while. What direction the company is taking and will go is anyones guess.

Sorry that I can't provide you better info.

 

[jonjuan]

Why not have your boss try the CL300 to compare, especially when trading in another bombardier product? He might just be impressed. Also, as the hawker 4000 is now "old technology" especially for an airframe that has sold 20-30 units, he might be not quite so excited about the support.
While he's at it, why not take a look at the Lear 85, which is a cross between the 300 and 60?

 

[TMMT]

try the CL300

Thats actually what I've been mulling over. I know next to nothing about the 4000.

I didn't know if it was some type of dark horse or something.

I agree I'd much rather see a 300 on the property personally.

 

[spxdriver]

Also, as the hawker 4000 is now "old technology" especially for an airframe that has sold 20-30 units, he might be not quite so excited about the support

There have been just shy of 60 Hawker 4000s sold.