Hawaii

[501261]

Just curious as what airplanes can make it out to Hawaii. Going the normal way from SF area to Maui-2100nm, not going through Alaska or the S. Pacific.

I've done it in a Westwind 2 and a Lear 36; obviously the Gulfstreams and Challengers can make it. Falcon 900's and 2000’s, Citation X's. What else can get out there?

I even know that Arnold Palmer once flew a Citation 3 from Maui to MRY, and he's proud of it (FYI- Citation III's have "comfortably" 4 hours worth of gas- it's a 5 hour flight).

Actual experience would be preferably to marketing numbers.

I've heard of people doing it in a 35's, 60's, Hawkers, but has anybody got any actual experience.

 

[CL60]

Careful

The ability to fly from "a" to "b" over the water is one thing... the capability to do it without a wet footprint is another entirely.

Did you have a wet footprint in the 1124 or Lear? It is a dangerous game of Russian Roulette out there for many people who don't properly plan extended overwater flights.

As for my actual overwater experience, only in Challengers.

I can however tell you that if you visit the NBAA international destinations site and look up tech stops in places like Hawaii or even more remote locations like Majuro, you will see posts from people in the least likely aircraft. I saw one from a Hawker 800 passing through Majuro, Marshall Islands.

Good luck,

 

[501261]

Exactly that's why I was asking for actual experience.

Yes, we did have a wet footprint in the 36 and Westwind 2, and it was a risk. However, it was a relatively small one, as they both carry over six hours worth of fuel and we did have the large capacity oxygen tanks. It's been a while, but I believe we had a 200 mile wet footprint, where if we lost an engine or pressurization right in the middle we were going for a swim.

I think that might be the same size wet footprint a Challenger 600 has.

Any way I'm not planning on going over there in a Citation 3 or anything like it, I'm just inquiring who’s done it in what.

 

[TaxiDriver]

Went MRY-HOG once in a Hawker 800 (non T/R). Did the trip at LRC .70M and landed with 1+ hours worth of fuel. Wet footprint, not much....had extended O2 tanks and two crew, no pax.

Enjoyed getting passed by a whale every 30 minutes or so.

 

[501261]

Wow, a straight 800? I've heard of XP's doing the trip regularly, but not the straight 800.

Anybody done it in a Lear 55 or 60?

 

[Gulfstream 200]

a 200nm wet footprint??

No thanks.

Guess I am a pu$$y!!!

What are you guys thinking!!??

 

[Rick1128]

It is interesting to listen to all these pilots out there complaining about a wet footprint and how they don't like it or will not do it. Then I listen to my dad talk about the days they flew C47's and B25 over water everyday when most of their flying as one big wet footprint. And you talk with the old time Airline Pilots who flew DC6's, 7's and B377's over the Pacific with engines were known to fail dramaicly. It's amazing how times change.

Brought 2 LR35's and a Westwind 2 from Australia a few years ago. And took a LR36 to HI a couple of time. With the Lears the wet footprint was under 30 minutes. The Westwind was just over that due to the gear. Also have taken Metro's over the Pacific and Atlantic. That is much more interesting. When I was bringing the Lear 35's across someone was ferrying a LR24 across. He had Two 1200 pound cabin tanks. That must have been an interesting trip. And think of the guys who ferry 172's and Mooneys across. Their flights are just one big wet footprint.

 

[501261]

A freaking LR24???

That's amazing, just think of the logistics, with an extra 2400# fuel he's what, 1600# over MTOW? Then, even with that extra gas, he's barely got enough fuel to make it! And that's if he can make it straight to FL410 (assuming he doesn't flameout being 1600 #'s over gross). Now I know a 24 has plenty of "juice" to carry the extra weight, but that's a little more than an extra golf bag!

I hope he was ferrying it to Hawaii, I mean jeez if it was going to end up in Australia or someplace "down there" it's probably cheaper to fly an extra 20 hours and go around the long way!

 

[banned username 2]

obviously the Gulfstreams and Challengers can make it. Falcon 900's and 2000’s, Citation X's. What else can get out there?

Falcon 50 / Falcon 50EX can do it quite comfortably...

 

[Rick1128]

501261,

Actually he went straight to 430. After all this aircraft has the same engines as a 25G which grosses out at 16K. So in reality he wasn't really that heavy. Of course we haven't included the weight of a couple of sets of real BIG B****.

He was going from Australia to the US. Australia has a set of aircraft noise rules you wouldn't believe. Many Stage 1 and 2 aircraft were dropping dead over there before the year 2000. The pilot later told me he landed in Santa Barbara with 500 pounds. He let ATC drive him down too early.

Jets don't normally flame out because they are too heavy. Normally they just will not climb any more and get slow. And it's not because I have done that. Just try getting a jet to climb above it's optimume altitude on a hot day. Same thing.

 

[501261]

Rick,

500#'s at SBA, man that's quite the pucker factor there! What the hell was he thinking? I mean SBA is about 100-150 further than MRY. If he'd just gone into MRY like he probably originally planned he'd a landed with 1000#'s. Sounds like something CL would do to save a fuel stop and get into VNY.

I know jets don't flameout because they're heavy, BUT heavy=slow IAS at altitude. Low airspeed + thin air= makes the CJ610 go poof (know they're not supposed to flameout, but I'm used to OK turbines).

 

[Rick1128]

Actually he was coming out of Hilo and it is my understanding that SBA is closer, but I haven't measured it.

And there are a lot of 610's out there that haven't been properly set up. I flew a Killitta engine that wouldn't pass the burst test at 350. And they claimed it was airworthy. Yeah Right! That was one of the reasons I turned that trip down.