Happy Birthday FlexFlops

[CL-350]

Well its been 1 year since the big announcement of Flexjet joining the Frankenstein of an aviation company called DAC. It has been interesting to the say the least and I am looking forward to another year of drama. Tell me this you IBT diehards. I don't log into this website too often but I see you guys are still at it. Flexjet pilots have been treated with hostility since day one and it doesn't look like it will let up anytime soon. You guys seem to want all kinds of things from us when we would rather be just left alone. Are you feeling rejected, jealous, what is it? We are not the cause of whatever problems you may have with your careers. It was you guys that signed that $hitty contract in the middle of a recession, not us. So if you aren't happy take it out on KR or each other or your union leaders and quit following me into the FBO restroom.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Well its been 1 year since the big announcement of Flexjet joining the Frankenstein of an aviation company called DAC. It has been interesting to the say the least and I am looking forward to another year of drama. Tell me this you IBT diehards. I don't log into this website too often but I see you guys are still at it. Flexjet pilots have been treated with hostility since day one and it doesn't look like it will let up anytime soon. You guys seem to want all kinds of things from us when we would rather be just left alone. Are you feeling rejected, jealous, what is it? We are not the cause of whatever problems you may have with your careers. It was you guys that signed that $hitty contract in the middle of a recession, not us. So if you aren't happy take it out on KR or each other or your union leaders and quit following me into the FBO restroom.

Well said.

 

[squawk]

Dittos...leave me alone. I don't want to get anymore unsolicited lectures from FLOPS pilots. You guys are coming across as jerks.

 

[DirtyBeech]

Please. Been talking to the Flops guys every week on the road. Not a single one has followed me into the bathroom to spread the good news of unionized labor, nor have they jumped into my flightdeck to tell me how they'll enjoy flying my equipment. So tell me which is less lame. Is it the odd a**hat who does that or is it starting an account on FI for the sole purpose of s**t talking their union? A**hattery is a**hattery. Stop being that guy.

 

[el raton]

They all have been nice to me. The only exception was a squirrelly faced Phenom pilot who looked at us as if were zoo animals...but there's no crime in that.


Even when I met the VP of the teamsters (first initial B.) he was nice.

 

[squawk]

Please. Been talking to the Flops guys every week on the road. Not a single one has followed me into the bathroom to spread the good news of unionized labor, nor have they jumped into my flightdeck to tell me how they'll enjoy flying my equipment. So tell me which is less lame. Is it the odd a**hat who does that or is it starting an account on FI for the sole purpose of s**t talking their union? A**hattery is a**hattery. Stop being that guy.

OK, I will pretend none of that happened.

 

[DirtyBeech]

No one said if didn't happen. It's not representative of their pilot group at all so stop passing it off like it is. They're just a bunch of schluffs like us trying to get by. I also met their union VP. Sat standby with him in fact, and he wasn't up in my face about it either.

Yeah, they have some goobers doing dumb stuff when they interact with us. We have no shortage of the same on our end.

 

[Fresh Air]

Thank you, Beech.

 

[dime line]

No one said if didn't happen. It's not representative of their pilot group at all so stop passing it off like it is. They're just a bunch of schluffs like us trying to get by. I also met their union VP. Sat standby with him in fact, and he wasn't up in my face about it either.

Yeah, they have some goobers doing dumb stuff when they interact with us. We have no shortage of the same on our end.

Well said.

 

[CL-350]

Please. Been talking to the Flops guys every week on the road. Not a single one has followed me into the bathroom to spread the good news of unionized labor, nor have they jumped into my flightdeck to tell me how they'll enjoy flying my equipment. So tell me which is less lame. Is it the odd a**hat who does that or is it starting an account on FI for the sole purpose of s**t talking their union? A**hattery is a**hattery. Stop being that guy.

A$$hattery? Who are you Beech, Ned Flanders? Dr. Seuss? Seriously I could not agree with you more that the majority of Flops pilots are good people and I have talked with them since the late 90s. I hope their next contract surpasses our pay and benefits. They deserve it. However, my last "encounter" was with some yahoo who continued to stalk me around the fbo and would not let up. Then on standby I went through 3 months of threads. Maybe hostile is the wrong word. Will rude work for you? If not, pick your adjective. And yes I was on this board from 2001 to 2008 but got bored with the back and forth banter. Then last year I think our lives became more interesting so I re-upped on FI having lost my original call sign after 5 years. So starting an FI account just to be anti-union is not exactly accurate. Besides, I am not anti-union, I am anti BS and anti dumba$$, or dumba$$sery in your case. So don't be one of those guys.
Oakley Dokely?

 

[DirtyBeech]

Ned Flanders. Really?

So you had one idiot follow you around the lobby and interact with what? 6 other guys here? And all the sudden they are all rude or hostile? Please. I didn't say you were anti union. I don't care why you quit FI. This post in particular was started to s**t talk them, their union and nothing more. And who are you talking to? 1.5% of their pilot group? It's an a-hole move. Childish.

The vast majority of them are just like us and want to compare what they're hearing with what we're hearing to piece it all together. I'm sure their group isn't judging ours by some senior Challenger Captain who's running smack on FI. I'm sure that 85% of their group, like ours, isn't even aware that this forum exists or, if they do, have any interest in participating on it.

 

[chainring]

There won't be another contract. The Union sad to say is dead as Kenn totally outplayed us. It's been a year and since the Union won't file for single carrier status he is going to do what he needs to do to move on without. The letter is his first step. Slowly Options planes will disappear and my guess is he will take the Phenoms over to Flex. Things will slowly wind down at Options as he will have to keep some flying while there are contracts over the next 3 to 4 years but Options is going away. Eventually the Union will have no choice but to file for single carrier or if they don't a group of pilots will ride it out til the end and probably end up in some 5 year lawsuit. There will come a day once the union is gone that Kenn will try to do some sort of seniority integration. I'm sad to see the union go as I would have much prefered to have a contract for all of us as the company will slowly change to the way every other Kenn company does. What you have now will not stay. But on the same hand it beats unemployment and always easier to look for better work while employed. Unfortunately for me it's a double edged sword as having a contract with work rules has been a huge improvement but it's time to move on and see what happens. I have to say one of the biggest things I will miss in the work rules has been the hard duty on time. It's been nice to know when the assign you a duty on time it can't change. Gives you a chance to be human , get some rest, plan to get in a workout and actually plan on some rest that can't be interrupted and not this policy you guys have. As time goes on it will get abused. I have been here since day one and hope the new company will be successful and run well, but I do have some doubts. But it is what it is, the union is dying and we are all about to find out what Ricci phase 3 is going to be like.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Don't forget one thing-the Ricci Rocket. The upgrades he made make it a plane I can live with. He's going to need pilots to fly them, so I will just follow the equipment. The plane has a unique place in the market, and it can't easily be replaced with another type.

 

[dime line]

There won't be another contract. The Union sad to say is dead as Kenn totally outplayed us. It's been a year and since the Union won't file for single carrier status he is going to do what he needs to do to move on without. The letter is his first step. Slowly Options planes will disappear and my guess is he will take the Phenoms over to Flex. Things will slowly wind down at Options as he will have to keep some flying while there are contracts over the next 3 to 4 years but Options is going away. Eventually the Union will have no choice but to file for single carrier or if they don't a group of pilots will ride it out til the end and probably end up in some 5 year lawsuit. There will come a day once the union is gone that Kenn will try to do some sort of seniority integration. I'm sad to see the union go as I would have much prefered to have a contract for all of us as the company will slowly change to the way every other Kenn company does. What you have now will not stay. But on the same hand it beats unemployment and always easier to look for better work while employed. Unfortunately for me it's a double edged sword as having a contract with work rules has been a huge improvement but it's time to move on and see what happens. I have to say one of the biggest things I will miss in the work rules has been the hard duty on time. It's been nice to know when the assign you a duty on time it can't change. Gives you a chance to be human , get some rest, plan to get in a workout and actually plan on some rest that can't be interrupted and not this policy you guys have. As time goes on it will get abused. I have been here since day one and hope the new company will be successful and run well, but I do have some doubts. But it is what it is, the union is dying and we are all about to find out what Ricci phase 3 is going to be like.

kinda think the world is falling hu?

 

[SDCFI]

kinda think the world is falling hu?

May not be too far off. Think about it: why else would they be offering FO pilots spots at Flexjet? Who's gonna take them? Not union guys; one they'll lose the union protection and two they'll be targets in an at-will employment situation. Yes they go to the bottom of the seniority list but they keep their pay until the Flex scale catches them and if all the growth is on the FJ side they may not be SIC's for more than a couple years anyway. And if there is a merger down the road they keep their FO number for that. Win/win.

We know there's a plan to move both sides' planes onto a single op cert and the current CBA doesn't adequately protect FO flying in that case. Once all planes are on a single cert the only thing differentiating FO and FJ will be the owner contracts. When a FO owner contact runs out they will just sign a new one with FJ. Same airplane, same pricing, just different "store front".

The current offer is the carrot. The next one will be the stick. If I were a betting man I'd guess if the IBT doesn't vote for single carrier or FO pilots don't vote to decertify IBT KR will wind down FO and offer affected pilots positions at FJ; however this time it will be at the bottom for real. New hire pay and benefits and no FO number to fall back on.

Do I hope this will happen? No. Am I happy about this whole abomination. No times 10. I just don't see any way of things staying separate when Dear Leader's vision is one Onesky empire. One thing's for sure, we're all gonna be a lot thinner!

 

[cougar12]

chainring,
You might be right, however I think you might be abandoning the ship a little early. The IBT employs the same advisers and attorneys that worked for Net Jets when they negotiated their contract. They have seen this stuff before and I am sure they have a plan. I know you think that single carrier status filling would be the way to go and in the short term it might be, KR could integrate the seniority list and we would become one happy family but nothing prevents KR's replacement coming in and undoing it. And I think that is the primary thing the union is trying to prevent from being a possibility.
While KR can not force single carrier status he can only apply the pressure you seem to be falling for. However the NLRB will force KR to negotiate or they will give him the contract and he will have to accept it. So to say he won't negotiate is false. Yes, he wants the union gone and he might get it if members don't stay strong. Winding us down or closing FO down will not be as easy as you think. Do you really think the Teamsters International would let a investment group buy a non union company shift the contacts and employees of a union company and not say anything about it? Do you think this hasn't been tried before? If it was so easy their wouldn't be any unions left in aviation or the transportation industry for that matter. KR is smart but he is not a super genius. The union has and is continuing to try to work with KR on all of these issues but it takes both parties to make compromises and work toward a common goal. I am hopeful that things will change when it is time for contract negotiations. I hope things work out for both brands and the company!
We all have invested a lot and believed in what we were doing was helping grow this company, the long days, lowest pay, no 401k, smiling while owners yell at us for being their rescue plane,and KR offers you an sic job at pic pay and year one seniority and you think it's time to jump over to flex?
I think we should stay a little longer and give the union our support. I think time is on the unions side.

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

‘The Union sad to say is dead as Kenn totally outplayed us.’ Chainring. What are you, French? If everyone would just stand up, Uncle wouldn’t get away with this crap. But you’re letting him, running around scared. You’re pathetic. He & his lawyers make a couple plays & you’re ready to throw in the towel, call it quits, say it’s over?

“Heeeey. What’s this lyin’ around s***? What? Over? Did you say ‘Over’? Nothing is over until we decide it is? Was it over when the German’s bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell No! It ain’t over now! ‘Cause when the going gets tough………….…………. The tough get going!”

Drop the white flag & pick up your balls.

 

[V1 Rotate]

?The Union sad to say is dead as Kenn totally outplayed us.? Chainring. What are you, French? If everyone would just stand up, Uncle wouldn?t get away with this crap. But you?re letting him, running around scared. You?re pathetic. He & his lawyers make a couple plays & you?re ready to throw in the towel, call it quits, say it?s over?

?Heeeey. What?s this lyin? around s***? What? Over? Did you say ?Over?? Nothing is over until we decide it is? Was it over when the German?s bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell No! It ain?t over now! ?Cause when the going gets tough????.????. The tough get going!?

Drop the white flag & pick up your balls.

Germans and Pearl Harbor??? I guess the Japanese knocked down the Trade Center???

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

Was it over when the German’s bombed Pearl Harbor? Bluto from Animal House.

 

[jetwash]

Was it over when the German?s bombed Pearl Harbor? Bluto from Animal House.

Some of us got it the first time