Had a hard landing today

[Groundpounder]

Don't feel too bad, I got to fly with pax on board for the first time yesterday and had a stinker of a landing. In my defense it was very gusty, but I was a bit embarrased. Oh well, the pax were cool about it, they said I did great.....lol

 

[mcjohn]

I was flying a little too heavy with passengers on board a while back and when it came time to land the only way I could do it properly was to touch down with a ground speed that was way higher than normal. Probably around 70-80 knots in a C172. Airspeed wasn't showing that but once I began to touch down I realized I was going waaaay faster than normal. Elevator control was extremely sluggish and all the weight on board made braking take for ever. I had drained some fuel out to bring the weight and balance just into the legal before the flight with all seats filled. I think my CG was a little more aft then I calculated for. One of the guys in the back seat said he was 160 pounds. He looked closer to 200 lbs but I took his word for it. (Stupid I know!) It was a stiff X wind day and it was by far the scariest landing I've ever made. Smooth touch down but the plane wouldn't quit flying. Each gust was blowing us off center line (even with aileron into the wind) and trying to pick the plane back up so I had no friction for braking. Ground roll was probably 2000 feet! Don't make my overweight mistake folks.

 

[wt219200]

Aint got SKILLZ! I heard of this happening once, and the nose gear collapsed on the next flight. Somebody could get hurt because you weren't assertive about damaging an aircraft.

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Apparently EMB Skillz didn't train in a Cessna because if he/she did they would listen to the description of the incident and recognize it as the problem with the shimmy dampeners that everyone else is talking about. Maybe you bought your time and never instructed thats why your flying a EMB170 for a regional, maybe maybe not. Another thing, to say that the student could have got someone hurt by not being assertive. First, most students wouldn't say anything to maintenance but this person did describe the problem to mx. Not many students would also have the balls to come on flight info and describe a mistake they made and ask for advice. So that was a great post EMB can't wait to hear more of your wisdom.

 

[FatAlbert]

Funny! I was flying the airplane that day and had the nose wheel collapse. Chief Pilot said it was because of my weight:bawling:

 

[mcjohn]

Not many students would also have the balls to come on flight info and describe a mistake they made and ask for advice. So that was a great post EMB can't wait to hear more of your wisdom.

"I'VE GOT BIG BALLS!" I flew out of weight and balance AND admitted my wrong doing here to pass on a valuable learning experience. So now that I've proven I'm a moron at least I'VE GOT BIG BALLS!

I'm outta here....see you'ens later. (you'ens = back woods of western N.C. talk where we're so inbred we fly planes out of W and B and don't understand MTOB.)

 

[mcjohn]

Good morning.

 

[Fugawe]

Had a student ask me how aerodynamic braking works the other day and I blanked out. I said something stupid like "I dunno, it just makes the mains press into the runway better." I used to spit out a great reason but it has slipped my mind. We're talking about the full back yoke right? Anyone care to refresh my memory?

Oh wait, I think I have it........It takes weight off the nose gear and transfers it to the main gear. By putting on brakes the weight of the airplane is thrown foward toward the nose gear which has no brakes so the full aft yoke will attempt to pull some of that weight off the nose and put it back on the mains where the brakes are.

Patting myself on the back.

Your aerobrake comments are interesting -- I"ve not really heard that term in quite a while (since military days). We'd aerobrake the F-15 and 16, and T-38 down to about 80 knots, then fly the nose down and wheel brake. Saved the brakes for sure. Early turn-offs were seldom an issue.

I've not seen it used by design in 16 airline years. It's generally not as effective on the higher cambered, low swept jets. They don't fly very fast (relatively) on final either, so not that much speed to dissipate. I don't do much GAA time, but haven't seen it used that much there either.

The following short article is an interesting take on the aerobrake. Maybe too much info, but interesting (from Aero-News):


Aerodynamic Braking and Lightplanes

The Air Force is big on “aerodynamic braking”, especially in fighter aircraft. Holding the nose high exposes a larger cross-section of the aircraft to the relative wind, increasing drag and helping to slow it down. The practice apparently came along with the advent of swept-wing fighters and reconnaissance aircraft, which tend to have very high stalling speeds and therefore long landing rolls (Note: increasing stall speed requires a faster landing speed for stall avoidance; faster speeds in turn require longer runways to dissipate landing energy). Aerodynamic braking is an alternative to ungainly drag ‘chutes that appeared with the introduction of these same airplanes.
Will aerodynamic braking reduce your landing roll in typical light airplanes? Probably not. Drag is an exponential function of airspeed, and at usual landing speeds of prop-driven airplanes simply aren’t moving fast enough for additional drag to be much of a factor. There are, however, several tangible advantages in holding the nose up during the landing roll (in tricycle gear aircraft) until minimum control effectiveness speed:

• Improved controllability. If too much airplane weight is borne on the nosewheel at high speeds, a nosewheel shimmy or vibration may develop and steering may overpower aerodynamic (rudder) directional control.
• Less stress on structure. Nose gear mountings, engine mounts and engine firewalls may all incur undue stress if lowered to the ground at a high speeds.
• Aircraft longevity. There’s evidence in some cases that letting the nose down at high speeds initiates a bending force along airplane fuselages, perhaps accelerating fatigue in other parts of the airframe.
• Nose tire life. Keep the nosewheel off the ground at high speeds and the tire lasts much longer.
• Adoration of pilots and nonpilots alike, as you provide a smoother landing experience.

Aero-tip of the day: Maybe not for the same reasons as fighter types, in most cases holding the nose up until it gently settled to the ground is an good technique in light airplanes

 

[pilotmyf]

Aint got SKILLZ! I heard of this happening once, and the nose gear collapsed on the next flight. Somebody could get hurt because you weren't assertive about damaging an aircraft.

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[Kream926]

how much aerodynamic breaking are you really gonna get outta a fitty-duece?

no where in the POH does it say anything about aerodynamic breaking in the short field procedure ( im assuming by aerodynamic you mean pulling back on the elevator). MCjohn, it does however mention retracting the wing flaps to transfer the weight from the wings and back down to the tires, dont confuse yourself. i had a 45 min debate with an examiner about this during my CFI ride