Grumman Ag Cat

[bubble]

Not sure if I'm in the right place for this, but I figured a lot of you guys flying SEATs and the like have a little ag experience.

I was wondering if I could get a pirep on a Grumman Ag Cat and its flying qualities. Is it a pretty straight forward airplane to fly? Are there any quirks that might be helpful to know about ahead of time? How is it as a banner towing airplane?

Thanks in advance!

 

[avbug]

Which version? The agcat is a very basic airplane with very straightforward flying qualities. It hauls a load well, turns tight, and behaves when it's pulled tight and loaded up.

Agcats come with several hopper sizes and range from the R985 for a powerplant to the 1340 or various turbine installations.

It's not a firefighting platform in the US.

 

[bubble]

It's a 600 hp ag cat with the R-1340. I know it's not used for a firefighting platform but I was hoping you would have some time in one if nothing else. Unfortunately I'll only be towing banners with it, but I figure it's a good start to prep for aerial application work (coupled with doing ground work for the local applicator).

 

[bugchaser]

Its a good honest airplane. The 600 can haul anything you can stuff in the hopper. Like Avbug said , its a basic airplane that is well behaved. In my opinion, the light framed 450 cats are more "fun" to fly. Must be a good paying banner yall are pullin. That thing is gonna cost you at least 120 bucks/hr just in gas.

If you have much experience at all, you will find the Cat easy enough to herd around the patch.

 

[Waldom]

It's a straightforward airplane with no bad habits. If you are comfortable in any conventional-gear airplane you can handle this one. For a bi-plane, the visability is excellent.

If you haven't flown a bi-plane before, the drag as compared to a mono-plane will surprise you. I would suggest that you demonstrate this to yourself during your familiarization flight as follows. Fly a very tight landing pattern and close the throttle opposite your touch-down point. I believe you will find that the only way you will make the runway from that point will be to turn immediately and directly toward the touch-down point. Again, this will work only if you are flying a very tight pattern.

I do not recommend power off approaches as a normal procedure, just as a demonstration so you understand the man-hole cover-like glide ratio of this airplane with power off. Most pilots fly their approach with some power on mainly because slow, staged, and small power reductions are easier on the engine.

There are some things that about running internally supercharged, radial aircraft engines that would be good to learn. If you are interested, I would request a short treatise on this from Avbug. The man knows whereof he speaks.

Before starting, pull the propeller through 2 rotations by hand. The purpose of this is to check that no engine oil has collected in the bottem cylinder heads. If oil has collected there and the piston moves toward the top of the cylinder with both the intake and exhaust valves closed, you can damage the engine if the engine is being turned with any more force than pulling the prop through by hand. This is due to the oil having nowhere to escape and the fact that liquid is not compressable. This situation is called 'hydraulic lock". Something has to give and it is usually the connecting rod bending.

If the engine stops turning while you're pulling the propeller through, the rear spark plugs on the lower three cylinders (#4,5, and 6) will have to be removed in order to drain the trapped oil.

The other "gotcha" is remembering to both shut-down and start this engine with the propeller in the high-pitch, low RPM position (prop control all the way back). Opposite from most propellers, the Hamilton-Standard counterweight propeller installed on this airplane uses engine oil pressure to put the prop in the low-pitch, high RPM position. Starting the engine with the prop control forward can starve the master connecting rod of lubrication during the start. Pulling the prop control back prior to shut-down also leaves the propeller control piston in the prop hub covered and protects it from collecting dust [its oily] and corrosion.

Enjoy flying the old "Ag-Kitty". And with that R-1340 out front, you should be able to tug a banner with 10 foot tall letters that reads "Happy fiftieth Anniversary Mr. and Mrs. Katzenjammer from your kids Alouicious, Elizabeth, Elouise, Theodore, and Bo. Many happy returns".

 

[DC4boy]

I agree with the above. Im flying a 600 on a SEAT contract an I love it!

 

[bubble]

Thanks all for the info. I haven't even seen the banner yet but the cat just seems like overkill to me. Oh well, there's no such thing as too much power!

If you are interested, I would request a short treatise on this from Avbug.

I'm definitely interested.

 

[BGSM]

banner plane

If your only going to tow banners than an Ag Cat is too much, fuel and mx will eat you up.
Banner towing planes are restricted to the number of letters they can tow by your local FSDO, we were certified for 60 7 foot letters. The problem is it takes forever to build it, plus the banner tends to twist at the end when its that long even with the tail flag. Look into a pawnee with the 0-540, nothing less powerfull it will tow what you need Regarding billboards it will pull anything.. less drag with the billboard than letters. If your a new start up operation then you have to jump through the FAA hoops. ie tow hitch install, requires a 337conformity inspection, they watch your ground guys you do a few pick ups and drops etc.Hope this helps

 

[agrinaut]

Wow, I am a new guy here and I see a thread on an ag plane. I flew the 450 and 600 hp. Cats for a long time. Loved them, but the 600 was definately the more capable of the two. Everything said is true. They are a very forgiving airplane to fly, but like any plane, they will bite your butt if you dont respect it. Got about 10,000 hrs in various assortments of Ag Cats with the last ones being the Super B+ with a Dash 1 Garrett. That plane was a stud. Lots of guys are alive today because of the design and "crash worthiness" of the Ag Cat. Have fun, and be careful.

 

[bubble]

Thanks guys. Fortunately I'm just a pilot and don't have to worry about mx or fuel. If boss man wants a 600 hp Ag Cat then boss man can have a 600 hp Ag Cat. I just wanted a heads up on the plane and its handling characteristics. After these posts I am quite excited to see what the plane has to offer.