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Greener pastures overseas?

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Erlanger

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Joined
Aug 4, 2002
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For captain Brian Murray, the memory of the way pilots and crew were treated during the airline bankruptcies of the 1980s still stings. "Planes were parked. Crews were out and had to find their own way home," says the former Piedmont Airlines pilot. "We were bringing people home in the cockpit and in the back of the cabin." After 23 years of flying mainline American carriers, Murray, 54, says he became "tired of watching senior management march through the airline and leave with huge golden parachutes."

So in July 2004 he jumped too, from U.S. Airways to Dubai-based Emirates. His new company provides him with a freshly pressed uniform and a chauffeur-driven car to each flight. Murray has twice the vacation time (42 days), guaranteed annual raises and a benefits package that has lured more than 100 U.S. pilots to Emirates over the past four years. One-third of the 23 former U.S. Airways pilots at Emirates had the option to return when the airline recalled them from furlough after the cuts in 2004. Only one did. "It's just not worth it," Murray says. "Employees have been beaten down to the lowest common denominator, where the salary, benefits and career path are so miserable--so uncertain." And maybe it's also because the guys who once ruled the U.S. skies now have a different status at the legacy carriers--employee.

That sentiment--a common one among the more than 10,000 U.S. airline pilots put on furlough between late 2001 and 2006--has led to what many airline experts call a major shortage of pilots willing to work for U.S. carriers. Bankruptcies, pay cuts, frozen pensions, eroded job security and increases in monthly flight hours have pushed some pilots out of the industry. Others have simply picked up and followed the best jobs overseas. Emirates, for example, expects to hire 540 pilots this year. Half the applicants are Americans, compared with just 7% of its current pilots. The result is a massive shift of talent and experience from U.S. carriers into the international market.

Pilots flying for airlines in foreign markets say they are treated like upper-level managers, with something they feel they no longer get in the U.S.: respect. China and India are signing up pilots with two-to-five-year contracts and giving them the chance to move around the world without having to start at the bottom and advance--something stifled by the seniority system in the U.S. "It's an amazing opportunity," says Murray.

And the word is quickly getting out to pilots in training. An aviation major and recent graduate of Georgia State University, Adnan Pochi, 21, has been flying since age 15 and has already racked up 300 flying hours. Although he will probably start off at a U.S. regional carrier, Pochi is attracted to the energy at airlines overseas. He hopes someday to go to India to work for Kingfisher Airlines. "They're hiring like crazy," says Pochi. "It's a big market."

The U.S. is still the world's pilot training ground, but the pool of young talent is drying up. The number of military pilots, once a reliable source of commercial recruits, has been declining. Flight instructors, whom the industry needs to keep the pipeline of new pilots flowing, are hopping abroad rather than spending years racking up hours to qualify for bottom-rung U.S. pilot posts. And only about 20% of furloughed pilots are coming back to work, compared with 80% to 90% historically, says Jerry Glass, a Washington-based consultant and president of F&H Solutions Group.

So who will fill the estimated 12,000 new airline pilot jobs created this year in the U.S.? Major airlines can still skim off the top to fill plum jobs with eager regional pilots, but then those regional positions will need to be filled. That is forcing some smaller carriers, such as Pinnacle Airlines and Comair, to reduce flight-hour requirements for experienced pilots or offer training-completion bonuses to new flight-school graduates.

Captain John Prater, president of the Air Lines Pilots Association, says a shortage of qualified pilots is severely affecting some regionals' ability to fly, tempting them to push pilots to fly beyond Federal Aviation Administration maximum flight times. Chronic pilot fatigue jeopardizes safety--and the pipeline's flow. "You destroy the benefit and the value of being an airline pilot, and people will take their skills elsewhere," he says. And they are.

source: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1727702,00.html
 
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Great article. People just don't want to pay out thousands of dollars for those ratings to only make 20 to start at the regional level. That is my guess as to why people aren't sticking around with this industry. This used to be a really glamorous job and regarded as so. It's still a blast to do, but just seems to have lost its sex appeal I guess you could say.

What are the requirements at Emirates?
 
Great article. People just don't want to pay out thousands of dollars for those ratings to only make 20 to start at the regional level. That is my guess as to why people aren't sticking around with this industry. This used to be a really glamorous job and regarded as so. It's still a blast to do, but just seems to have lost its sex appeal I guess you could say.

What are the requirements at Emirates?

Several thousand hours of turbojet for FO positions. Regional CA's can get on with them.

But remember, for most of us americans (especially anyone with a family) time spent in Dubai is not really living life...it's doing time.

They compensate you reasonably well for your time, but they are not paying you just to do your job...they are paying you to fly and THEN to hang out in the desert on your days off. Keep that in mind.

Dubai is interesting, but the lifestyle is too one-dimensional for most of us. If you are young, single, and good looking Dubai can be a lot of fun...maybe for years. But eventually even that will grow old (for 98% of us). If you're single, I'd say go do it for a few years, and then leverage the international widebody time into a job at FDX/UPS...but the problem is that I think living overseas will DQ you from airlines which carry a lot of US mail.

The wealthiest arabs usually spend much of THEIR time overseas...for good reason.
 
luvz2fli said:
What are the requirements at Emirates?

http://www.emiratesgroupcareers.com/

Minimum Requirements

Emirates Airline takes great pride in the work our Flight Deck Crew perform daily to 88 destinations across the globe. To ensure the continued high levels of safety and service for our passengers and employees, our selection standards for flight crew positions are necessarily high.

Requirements for Position of Direct Entry Captain

A minimum of 8,000 hours total flying time
A minimum of 3,000 hours in command of multi-crew, multi-engine jet aircraft in excess of 55 tonnes MTOW
4,000 hours flown in multi-crew, multi-engine jet or turbo prop aircraft with MTOW of 10 tonnes or more, as P1 or P2
Preference will be given to candidates with Boeing EFIS experience who will be eligible to undertake a short transition course
Must be a current Captain
First Officers, qualified as Cruise Captains, do not meet the Direct Entry Captain requirements
ICAO ATPL
English language fluency (written and verbal comprehension)
Requirements for Position of First Officer - A330/A340 and B777

A minimum of 4,000 hours total flying time
A minimum of 2,000 hours multi-crew, multi-engined jet aircraft experience
ICAO ATPL
English language fluency (written and verbal comprehension)
Experience commensurate with age
Type rated would be advantageous








eP.
 
There are a lot of other places where an American can work overseas other than Dubai. We even have a few Emirates guys who left to come work in Japan.
 
What makes you say that? Have you been in (visited) or lived in Dubai before?

Of course. I've been all over sand-land...numerous times.

Dubai is nice the way a glitzy shopping mall is nice, but most of us wouldn't want to live in a mall. Kind of like the vegas strip...

There are exceptions...if you'd like living in Hong Kong or Manhattan, then Dubai might be good for you. But unless you grew up in that sort of environment, it would probably wear on you in the long term.

But taking a family or spouse over there sight-unseen is asking for trouble.

I'm not trying to tell you not to do it, I'm just informing folks who don't have experience with some of the alien environments to be found overseas.

But if you're going to do it, you need a plan...

- Bail on America and live in Dubai forever? That's a big step...ditch your SO and any kids before you leave, and then find an nice ex-pat girl once you get there (gotta LOVE that australian accent).

- Head over for 15-20, retire early and then return to the US to either sit in a rocking chair or start another career. Still a hard sell to the wife...and your kids will grow up as europeans.

- Do it for 5 years, have an adventure, stock the 401k, then return to work at a US major airline.
 
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