great lakes training contract

[mrflyguy]

Does anyone have any first-hand information about great lakes training contract and if it is enforceable in court? Thinking about leaving there after less than a year and wondering what the consequences would be. Thanks in advance for the help.

 

[FlyLawyer]

Training Contracts

Much to the chagrin of pilots, training contracts (for the most part) are indeed enforceable in a court of law. And, pursuant to the Long Arm Statute, the incorporated entity will initiate the suit in their jurisdiction, regardless of the defendant's state of residency.

Here's what usually happens: The company will send a certified letter to the former pilot requesting the unamortized amount of reimbursement for training costs. If the pilot ignores the letter, or if a repayment schedule cannot be agreed upon, the company will file a lawsuit. Pursuant to the civil remedies procedure of that jurisdiction, the pilot (now defendant or respondent) will be "served" with the legal papers. Service of process usually is carried out by a Deputy Sheriff pounding on the defendant's door at 6:00 am or thereabouts.

Now that the defendant has been served, most jurisdictions give the defendant 30 days to answer the suit. If ignored further the defendant will be found liable for specified damages and a default judgment will be entered into the public record against the defendant. Here, the three credit reporting firms will attach this judgment to your credit report. This usually occurs within six months. This can cost you a job. And if employed by the federal government, your wages will be garnished to satisfy the debt.

Since a judgment has been assessed against the defendant, the company will now begin collection procedures, if they can find the defendant. They will hire a lawyer in the defendant's jurisdiction to enforce the judgment pursuant to the judgment enforcment laws of that jurisdiction. The lawyer will contact the defendant and try to persuade the defendant to pay the judgement plus the collection fee, plus 10% annual interest. If the defendant ignores the lawyer, the lawyer will file for an asset hearing before a judge in magistrate's court or superior court based upon the amount in question. This hearing is very important for the defendant, because if the defendant lies about his/her assets, a contempt of court charge (a criminal offense) will be levied against the defendant further exacerbating the defendant's problem.

To settle the judgment the judge can order the selling of defendant assets or real property. This of course, too, is governed by the laws of the local jurisdiction.

Collection of judgments is made possible by Article Four of the U.S. Constitution which states that "the full faith and credit of States shall be observed by other states..." and the Uniform Foreign Judgments Enforcement Act. Don't ever believe that simply because the company is in one state and you are in another that you are immune from a lawsuit or jugment enforcement. Just ask Oprah who spent a staggering amount of money defending herself in Texas even though she resided in Illinois.

In essence, training contracts are never in the best interest of the pilot to say the least. And, some have successfully argued that such unilateral agreements are made under duress and in violation of the Fair Trade Act and should be voided. This of course depends on your jurisdiction. Best advice - never sign these agreements and if you do, seek a lawyer's advice in your jurisdiction for the appropriate response.

I hope this info helps.

Irv Pettifoger

 

[NDPILOT]

Yeah - what he said

 

[canadflyau]

FlyLawyer-
I'll further the question.. How do CBA's (collective bargaining agreements) factor in to the equation. At Lakes the CBA specifically states that the pilot will incur no cost of training.. So does that change the above scenario?

The problem I am aware of (not sure if it holds legal water) is that when you quit you can no longer be protected by the CBA b/c you are no longer a part of the pilot group as specified in the CBA.. is that the way Lakes could still persue the training contract??? say after the probationary period of 12 mos, but before the 15mos as per the Training contract... I guess I am saying you are no longer a "probationary" employee and are protected by the CBA, but not met the 15 moth obligation of the Training Contract.

One last question, does the manner in which you are presented and asked to sign determine the legality of the contract all together? I.E. Condition of employment (when you are made aware that it is), did you initial every page, was there a 3rd party witness, etc..

OK, I'll stop asking and let you answer.

 

[FlyLawyer]

CBA Effect on Training Agreements

FlyLawyer-
I'll further the question.. How do CBA's (collective bargaining agreements) factor in to the equation. At Lakes the CBA specifically states that the pilot will incur no cost of training.. So does that change the above scenario?

Even though a "probationary" employee, first year pilots still enjoy some contract protections (per diem, training times, accomodations, etc). Whether this protection would extend to the training cost issue would be contingent upon the precise wording of the appropriate section in the contract.

But, if I were defending a pilot I would certainly explore the possibilities of this issue as a defense in legal proceedings because "Training costs", unless otherwise specifically differentiated, would include "ab initio" as well as upgrade, retrograde, and transitional. It could certainly bolster the viewpoint that the company knowingly engaged in a contractual issue that contradicted a previously agreed upon contract tenet. In essence, it could subject the company to an "estoppel" issue, which addresses a party's action or rationale in one legal issue that is in direct contradiction to what was previously asserted by that same party in another legal issue.

It is also very important when the contract is signed - in some jurisdictions. About seven years ago I represented a pilot who left a supplemental air carrier for a major airline. The company sued pursuant to the training agreement that was signed during the second week of groundschool. Had the pilot refused to sign the agreement his employment would have been terminated immediately. Because of the adverse economic impact that the pilot would have been subjected to had he not signed the agreement, I argued "duress" in a jury trial with a favorable result. Two years later, in a similar case (outside of aviation) I utilized this defense again - and lost the case. Jurisdiction is everything.

Pursuant to the Statute of Frauds, initializing of individual pages can also be a significant, rebuttable issue. Moreover, several years ago, an Illinois judge held that one company's training agreement of $22000 was excessive and held that the pilot was only responsible for $10,000 when he left prior to the full amortization of the training costs.

Again, if in a training agreement dilemma, consult a lawyer in your jurisdiction.

Hope this helps.

Irv Pettifoger

 

[AVI1900D]

Here is what a buddy of mine did at a regional that required him to sign a contract. After he was offered the job at the interview and was informed he had to sign a contact on the first day of ground school, he asked for a copy so he could take it home and look at it thoroughly. The contact as most contact are, was written using microsoft word. he then typed a new one with certain key words changed and made a copy so it looked exactly like the original contract. Come first day of ground school he pulled the switcharoo. later when he left and they wanted money he told them to F*** off and told them to have the contract looked at. Needless to say they had no case since they did not take appropriate actions to stop this from happening in the first place.

 

[Capt. Tex]

Ok, don't tell me that the company just let it go instead of comparing their contract to your buddy's fake contract. They had to call him on it.

 

[crashpad]

What would they call him, ...ingenious?

 

[AVI1900D]

Ok, don't tell me that the company just let it go instead of comparing their contract to your buddy's fake contract. They had to call him on it.

he pretty much left thing intact just changed the shalls to shall not's the will's to will not's etc.... The contract the company had sais he did not owe them jack.

 

[mrflyguy]

Thanks for the replies--but does anyone have any information specific to Great Lakes?